neilt3
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
Posts: 134
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Post by neilt3 on Aug 14, 2023 16:56:46 GMT
The non instant return mirror lived on in medium format SLR cameras right to the end of the film era despite other innovations like TTL metering, open aperture viewing with automatic stop down etc. All things people lived and worked with which today's DSLR or mirrorless users don't have to worry about.
Yep - it's probably the only thing about my SQ-A that I dislike... and that, alone, is probably the reason that the camera gets less use than it properly deserves.  If it's just that it doesn't automatically put the mirror back down and wind on that puts you off, trade up to either the SQ-Ai and get the optional automatic winder or SQ-AM with built in auto winder. I've a few of the SQ models , including the SQ-Ai as I like the auto flash , especially for macro . I've a Sunpak macro flash amongst other that are fully compatible with this camera and my ETRSi's. I don't have a problem winding the cameras on by hand after each shot though , so the lack of that feature doesn't bother me . I like using my Bronica's though . Cameras such as my Kiev 88 and 60 can only be hand wound after an exposure. Another way of looking at it is I've missed a few shots with my TLRs because I'd forgot to wind the film on , but was still able to focus etc through the viewing lens . You realise as soon as you press the shutter release! |
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Post by peterba on Aug 14, 2023 19:34:39 GMT
If it's just that it doesn't automatically put the mirror back down and wind on that puts you off, trade up to either the SQ-Ai and get the optional automatic winder or SQ-AM with built in auto winder. I've a few of the SQ models , including the SQ-Ai as I like the auto flash , especially for macro . I've a Sunpak macro flash amongst other that are fully compatible with this camera and my ETRSi's. I don't have a problem winding the cameras on by hand after each shot though , so the lack of that feature doesn't bother me . I like using my Bronica's though . Cameras such as my Kiev 88 and 60 can only be hand wound after an exposure. Another way of looking at it is I've missed a few shots with my TLRs because I'd forgot to wind the film on , but was still able to focus etc through the viewing lens . You realise as soon as you press the shutter release!
All good points, Neil - thanks. In fact, I do like my SQ-A very much, and the mirror thing is really the only bugbear.
It's a great camera, and I ought to use it more... regardless of that bugbear.  |
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Post by nimbus on Aug 14, 2023 22:18:06 GMT
Here's my Edixa Reflex, built by Wirgin of Dresden, and the lens it came with, a Steinheil Cassar - a triplet obviously meant to sound like a Tessar! Then there it is in its new guise for collimating lenses, because the waist-level finder has a magnifier in it that should make it easier to use for the job than my F3 (yes, you read that right, because I have to take the prism off to use it!) - with the new Jupiter-11A fitted. I recall a thread Elsewhere where someone asked why SLRs hadn't instantly supplanted rangefinders in the 1950s and I could say, having used a 1950s SLR, "Have you ever used one?". This is it - no coupling of the aperture, just focus on a screen with no assistance and, worst of all, the mirror doesn't return until you cock that shutter - really disconcerting if you haven't come across it before! Finally - how's your Russian? We've got most of it - it says "Fotoobjectiv Jupiter 11", not sure about the bottom line on the left, but on the right is clearly "Zenit" so maybe "to fit"? The non instant return mirror lived on in medium format SLR cameras right to the end of the film era despite other innovations like TTL metering, open aperture viewing with automatic stop down etc. All things people lived and worked with which today's DSLR or mirrorless users don't have to worry about. I had Mamiya 645s, they certainly had instant return mirrors, as did the Pentax 645 and I believe the Pentax 6x7/67. |
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Post by nickr on Aug 15, 2023 7:34:32 GMT
The non instant return mirror lived on in medium format SLR cameras right to the end of the film era despite other innovations like TTL metering, open aperture viewing with automatic stop down etc. All things people lived and worked with which today's DSLR or mirrorless users don't have to worry about. I had Mamiya 645s, they certainly had instant return mirrors, as did the Pentax 645 and I believe the Pentax 6x7/67. Yup. My M645 is the original model, it has an instant return mirror. So does the Pentax 67. They're focal plane shutter cameras, so the complexity is somewhat less - instant return mirrors with leaf shutter lenses adds a degree of complexity that often ends in unreliability. That said, I've got leaf shutter lenses for both systems... |
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neilt3
Full Member
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
Posts: 134
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Post by neilt3 on Aug 15, 2023 8:29:19 GMT
If it's just that it doesn't automatically put the mirror back down and wind on that puts you off, trade up to either the SQ-Ai and get the optional automatic winder or SQ-AM with built in auto winder. I've a few of the SQ models , including the SQ-Ai as I like the auto flash , especially for macro . I've a Sunpak macro flash amongst other that are fully compatible with this camera and my ETRSi's. I don't have a problem winding the cameras on by hand after each shot though , so the lack of that feature doesn't bother me . I like using my Bronica's though . Cameras such as my Kiev 88 and 60 can only be hand wound after an exposure. Another way of looking at it is I've missed a few shots with my TLRs because I'd forgot to wind the film on , but was still able to focus etc through the viewing lens . You realise as soon as you press the shutter release!
All good points, Neil - thanks. In fact, I do like my SQ-A very much, and the mirror thing is really the only bugbear.
It's a great camera, and I ought to use it more... regardless of that bugbear. The only thing that I find a find a pain on this camera and the few Nikon SLR cameras I have is that they made a big cock up with the the lens mounts , and made you mount the lens the wrong way . Everyone else worked it out , nut and bolt , jam jar lid , camera lens , all goes on clockwise..... What were they thinking ?  That's one for the Nikon brigade .  |
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Post by nickr on Aug 15, 2023 8:32:47 GMT
I recall a thread Elsewhere where someone asked why SLRs hadn't instantly supplanted rangefinders in the 1950s and I could say, having used a 1950s SLR, "Have you ever used one?". This is it - no coupling of the aperture, just focus on a screen with no assistance and, worst of all, the mirror doesn't return until you cock that shutter - really disconcerting if you haven't come across it before! Rangefinder cameras in the 50s had reached a level of near-perfection - well, camera makers knew how to make them, and could make them to very high engineering standards. And often did, even the not quite so expensive ones. SLRs were a different matter. Even designing lenses to clear mirror boxes wasn't the simplest thing, it was all pretty new. And much of the early running was made behind the Iron Curtain, too. |
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Post by peterba on Aug 15, 2023 8:34:30 GMT
The only thing that I find a find a pain on this camera and the few Nikon SLR cameras I have is that they made a big cock up with the the lens mounts , and made you mount the lens the wrong way . Everyone else worked it out , nut and bolt , jam jar lid , camera lens , all goes on clockwise..... What were they thinking ? That's one for the Nikon brigade .
I can't disagree, Neil. I guess that's two bugbears, then! |
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Post by nickr on Aug 15, 2023 8:40:25 GMT
All good points, Neil - thanks. In fact, I do like my SQ-A very much, and the mirror thing is really the only bugbear.
It's a great camera, and I ought to use it more... regardless of that bugbear. The only thing that I find a find a pain on this camera and the few Nikon SLR cameras I have is that they made a big cock up with the the lens mounts , and made you mount the lens the wrong way . Everyone else worked it out , nut and bolt , jam jar lid , camera lens , all goes on clockwise..... What were they thinking ? That's one for the Nikon brigade . In all fairness, it's not really Nikon's fault. Their rangefinders were Contax copies, including (more or less) the mount. So it's Zeiss Ikon to blame for the mounting direction, somewhat surprisingly. Nikon have always been of the opinion (quite correctly, IMHO ) that their customers are a bit thick (after all, why else would they be buying Nikon? ) , and incapable of learning anything new, so they have retained the mounting direction for subsequent mounts.  |
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Post by geoffr on Aug 15, 2023 10:10:50 GMT
All good points, Neil - thanks. In fact, I do like my SQ-A very much, and the mirror thing is really the only bugbear.
It's a great camera, and I ought to use it more... regardless of that bugbear. The only thing that I find a find a pain on this camera and the few Nikon SLR cameras I have is that they made a big cock up with the the lens mounts , and made you mount the lens the wrong way . Everyone else worked it out , nut and bolt , jam jar lid , camera lens , all goes on clockwise..... What were they thinking ? That's one for the Nikon brigade . Surely the Nikon “left hand thread” lens mount is to prevent the fitting of an inferior lens? |
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Post by nickr on Aug 15, 2023 11:04:48 GMT
The only thing that I find a find a pain on this camera and the few Nikon SLR cameras I have is that they made a big cock up with the the lens mounts , and made you mount the lens the wrong way . Everyone else worked it out , nut and bolt , jam jar lid , camera lens , all goes on clockwise..... What were they thinking ? That's one for the Nikon brigade . Surely the Nikon “left hand thread” lens mount is to prevent the fitting of an inferior lens? No, it's to ensure the fitting of inferior lenses. |
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Post by El Sid on Aug 15, 2023 11:58:24 GMT
Nikon have always been of the opinion (quite correctly, IMHO ) that their customers are a bit thick (after all, why else would they be buying Nikon? ) , and incapable of learning anything new, so they have retained the mounting direction for subsequent mounts. I never really found the mounting direction an issue when I used Nikon exclusively. It only became a problem when I started using Canon who insisted on having their lenses mount the wrong way... Funnily enough it doesn't take long to switch back to the Nikon direction when I get one out - muscle memory I guess... |
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Post by nickr on Aug 15, 2023 12:20:33 GMT
Nikon have always been of the opinion (quite correctly, IMHO ) that their customers are a bit thick (after all, why else would they be buying Nikon? ) , and incapable of learning anything new, so they have retained the mounting direction for subsequent mounts. I never really found the mounting direction an issue when I used Nikon exclusively. It only became a problem when I started using Canon who insisted on having their lenses mount the wrong way... Funnily enough it doesn't take long to switch back to the Nikon direction when I get one out - muscle memory I guess... Have to say I've never, ever been able to get used to it - it always feels utterly alien to me. And yet I can use an old Contax or Kiev without any real problem, probably because they're so different to an SLR. Or indeed to almost anything else! |
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