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Post by nickr on Jul 14, 2023 11:57:55 GMT
I don't know who put the book up for consideration. I have a feeling that a few copies were donated to the Bothy by the author for sale at a local fundraiser and as there some left it was added on as an extra because the book we are supposed to be concentrating on wasn't that long. The chap is a bit of a local stalwart although I've never seen him at the Bothy he may well also be a member. I have seen him at the local Community Hub which is a different organisation but one which the Bothy often collaborates with so it's possible that the books came from that direction. I don't think his wife suggested it as reading material. Part of my day job at UHI is dealing with disclosures of Gender Based Violence and I'm also on the Safeguarding team. I worry that I'm starting to see GBV or the threat of it everywhere I go. I have no evidence to suggest that she suffers anything from her husband at all. He may just be working under the misapprehension that this stuff is funny and would in fact, never hurt a fly. He may be using coercive control or physical violence to keep his wife where he wants her. I don't know. What I don't want to do is create an atmosphere in the Bothy where she (or anyone else) starts to feel that she can't approach someone for help if she needs it. I asked what you'd all do to sense check whether I was just being overly aware of GBV and the impact of language, or if in fact I was right to feel this way. I think you've all pretty much confirmed that the words written are not acceptable and I thank you for that. I have decided that whoever is at the Bothy Book Club when it comes round (last Tuesday of the month), I will listen to the responses from others first and take it from there. If asked, I'm going to say that I found some elements of it problematic and explain about the work I do at the college, that I'm a first repsonder for disclosures of Gender Based Violence etc and that jokes and phrases like these are often cited to us by survivors of abuse as the kind of thing they were told they were being too sensitive about. I may take some of the examples and discuss how they could have been written, and still (actuallly) be funny without resorting to the kind of thing I've felt so upset about. I will also be going along this afternoon with some resources to put up on the noticeboard re. organisations that can help survivors of abuse, whether it be phsycial, emotional, coercive control etc. so that they are more visible if this lady, or anyone else for htat matter, feels the need. Thanks everyone. Kath To absolutely no surprise whatsoever to me, a very sensible, balanced and considerate approach. |
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Post by mick on Jul 15, 2023 9:39:22 GMT
Bearing in mind the potential vulnerability of the members I’d try to have the book withdrawn. Then an appropriate person explain to wife. It may be better for her to hear in private than hear the book getting trashed in public. Sorry for brevity- on my phone. Mick The thing is, she might be longing for the book to be trashed. It does no-one any favours by looking the other way.I have no idea what happened. My response vanished. It was along the lines that I also had in mind the posiiotn of the other members - whose mental condition we don't know. I can't be bothered to retype except that I said that, sometimes, looking the other way is the correct response. Not always obviously. I ended by hoping that your plan works and hoping that you would let us know.Mick |
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Post by kate on Jul 15, 2023 11:11:08 GMT
The thing is, she might be longing for the book to be trashed. It does no-one any favours by looking the other way. (Mick) I have no idea what happened. My response vanished. It was along the lines that I also had in mind the posiiotn of the other members - whose mental condition we don't know. I can't be bothered to retype except that I said that, sometimes, looking the other way is the correct response. Not always obviously. I ended by hoping that your plan works and hoping that you would let us know.Mick I'm struggling to think of a time when looking the other way has been appropriate, but perhaps you could cite some instances I'm not aware of. I do agree with Kath however, that inviting comments first of all could kick off further discussions along the lines Kath mentioned above. |
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Post by mick on Jul 15, 2023 11:23:23 GMT
A very obvious possibility is in this situation. We have no idea of the mental issues of the other members - we just know that they have such issues (at least I think that we do). If a discussion about this book were to kick off some severe adverse reaction in a member of the group then, maybe, looking the other way might have been appropriate. Possibly such awful language (I'm referring to the book) could bring back traumatic memories - we don't know and I'm simply speculating of course. The central point is that the group, apparently, is one with a history of mental issues among its members. My reaction would have been quite different if the group was drawn from the general population.
It's a matter of judgement and mine is no better than yours. All I can do is to hope that all goes well. As Nick said , "To absolutely no surprise whatsoever to me, a very sensible, balanced and considerate approach"
Mick
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Post by geoffr on Jul 15, 2023 11:56:37 GMT
A very obvious possibility is in this situation. We have no idea of the mental issues of the other members - we just know that they have such issues (at least I think that we do). If a discussion about this book were to kick off some severe adverse reaction in a member of the group then, maybe, looking the other way might have been appropriate. Possibly such awful language (I'm referring to the book) could bring back traumatic memories - we don't know and I'm simply speculating of course. The central point is that the group, apparently, is one with a history of mental issues among its members. My reaction would have been quite different if the group was drawn from the general population. It's a matter of judgement and mine is no better than yours. All I can do is to hope that all goes well. As Nick said , "To absolutely no surprise whatsoever to me, a very sensible, balanced and considerate approach" Mick I think we have to trust Kath's judgement on this, after all she knows the people involved. I am confident that she will pull the whole discussion should anyone show signs of distress. |
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Post by mick on Jul 15, 2023 19:58:00 GMT
Agree absolutely.
Mick
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Post by Kath on Jul 26, 2023 9:41:53 GMT
Update. Book club was last night. I turned up, stomach churning at the prospect, only to find that nobody had brought their copy of the offending book but me. It seems it was pulled from the discussion after another member complained to the manager of the Bothy and I was the only one who didn't get the message. No sign of the author, or the author's wife. On the one hand, I'm glad that I didn't have confront anyone, pleased that nobody had to be embarrassed or put on the spot, and delighted that nobody was made to feel awkward or distressed. However, I'm not entirely happy. The other book we were reading was The Help which was entirely about the bravery of black maids in early 1960s Mississippi telling their stories when a now wholly unacceptable set of parameters governed everyone's lives. I couldn't help think that the supposedly funny book belonged in a small corner of the same Museum of the Unacceptable as US segregation laws, and that nothing would have changed if everyone had just sat back and accepted the status quo, so I find that I'm annoyed that the author is still presumably swanning around thinking his brand of humour is funny/acceptable when it's neither.
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Post by geoffr on Jul 26, 2023 9:49:44 GMT
Update. Book club was last night. I turned up, stomach churning at the prospect, only to find that nobody had brought their copy of the offending book but me. It seems it was pulled from the discussion after another member complained to the manager of the Bothy and I was the only one who didn't get the message. No sign of the author, or the author's wife. On the one hand, I'm glad that I didn't have confront anyone, pleased that nobody had to be embarrassed or put on the spot, and delighted that nobody was made to feel awkward or distressed. However, I'm not entirely happy. The other book we were reading was The Help which was entirely about the bravery of black maids in early 1960s Mississippi telling their stories when a now wholly unacceptable set of parameters governed everyone's lives. I couldn't help think that the supposedly funny book belonged in a small corner of the same Museum of the Unacceptable as US segregation laws, and that nothing would have changed if everyone had just sat back and accepted the status quo, so I find that I'm annoyed that the author is still presumably swanning around thinking his brand of humour is funny/acceptable when it's neither. Clearly you were not alone in your opinion of the book. However you probably don’t know whether anything was said to the author, or his wife, when the book was pulled from the discussion. One can only hope that the manager didn’t just remove the book from the discussion without saying anything. I am assuming that the author provided the copies. |
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Post by Kath on Jul 26, 2023 10:27:38 GMT
Update. Book club was last night. I turned up, stomach churning at the prospect, only to find that nobody had brought their copy of the offending book but me. It seems it was pulled from the discussion after another member complained to the manager of the Bothy and I was the only one who didn't get the message. No sign of the author, or the author's wife. On the one hand, I'm glad that I didn't have confront anyone, pleased that nobody had to be embarrassed or put on the spot, and delighted that nobody was made to feel awkward or distressed. However, I'm not entirely happy. The other book we were reading was The Help which was entirely about the bravery of black maids in early 1960s Mississippi telling their stories when a now wholly unacceptable set of parameters governed everyone's lives. I couldn't help think that the supposedly funny book belonged in a small corner of the same Museum of the Unacceptable as US segregation laws, and that nothing would have changed if everyone had just sat back and accepted the status quo, so I find that I'm annoyed that the author is still presumably swanning around thinking his brand of humour is funny/acceptable when it's neither. Clearly you were not alone in your opinion of the book. However you probably don’t know whether anything was said to the author, or his wife, when the book was pulled from the discussion. One can only hope that the manager didn’t just remove the book from the discussion without saying anything. I am assuming that the author provided the copies. From what I can gather, the books were donated by the author some time ago for sale at one of our fundraisers, not intended for the book club. I don't know if he even knew the book was up for discussion this month unless someone mentioned it to his wife. I will try and find out if anything has been said but to be honest, I doubt it. |
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Post by beatnik69 on Jul 26, 2023 11:14:54 GMT
I'm a bit late to the party here. To me the first two quotes seem straight from the Bernard Manning Big Book of Comedy and the third seems more Charles Bukowski, though even he might baulk at writing something like that. I suppose if you had ended up reviewing it and didn't want to cause tension, you could have spoken about how you felt about the character and his words (unless the author was writing about himself) and how you found him distasteful.
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Post by don on Jul 26, 2023 13:29:36 GMT
Does he have access to this forum? Show him this thread coz I’d like to congratulate him for being a misogynist A-hole of the first degree. Those were never funny fifty years ago
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Post by Chester PB on Jul 29, 2023 18:00:35 GMT
Perhaps it was just a cry for help, since it appears some is needed.
I don't agree with banning or burning books, so since this book is acceptable to many members why not write one yourself about men like him?
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Post by willien on Jul 29, 2023 18:09:06 GMT
Perhaps it was just a cry for help, since it appears some is needed. I don't agree with banning or burning books, so since this book is acceptable to many members why not write one yourself about men like him? Good to see you again Chester. Without going back through every post - not sure anyone suggested banning or burning the book - or the writer. Why would any one want to waste their time writing such a response?
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neilt3
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Post by neilt3 on Jul 29, 2023 19:02:52 GMT
Perhaps it was just a cry for help, since it appears some is needed. I don't agree with banning or burning books, so since this book is acceptable to many members why not write one yourself about men like him? I don't remember reading any post's saying they thought the book was acceptable unless I missed it . The members of the book club might not have said anything when the books were handed out , but seemed to have complained and got it pulled anyway ? It's possible they all complained , but just wanted to do so privately rather than when the books were handed out . Not everyone's is comfortable speaking their mind in public , especially as the authors wife was present , even if he's quite clearly an arsehole . Anyone who tries to be a cheap Bernard Manning copy has big issues . |
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Post by Kath on Jul 31, 2023 11:52:54 GMT
Perhaps it was just a cry for help, since it appears some is needed. I don't agree with banning or burning books, so since this book is acceptable to many members why not write one yourself about men like him? Nobody banned or burned anything! The book, alongside another, was handed out/offered to any/all members that wanted to read it and originally, both were up for discussion as part of our monthly book club. It was decided after a couple of people raised issues, that perhaps this book was not really suitable for discussion at our particular book club with the known histories of some of our particular group members. That's all. ETA....not going to write a book about men like him because I have neither the time nor the inclination. |
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