Would you say something? Or be polite?

[Kath]

As many of you know, I facilitate a Photography Group at our local Mental Health & Wellbeing Hub.  I'm also a member because, well, sometimes my mental health is not as robust as I'd like.  It helps me, a lot, and I know it helps others.  I'm also aware that not everyone is as open about their mental health issues as I am and that there will be people there struggling with things that I'm oblivious to, so I don't want to cause anyone any anguish.

The Bothy has a Book Club and this month we've been given two titles as neither is all that long.  (Although my second title hasn't shown up yet from Abe Books so hopefully it's a really thin volume as I've only got a week or so to read it.)  The first title is a collection of short 'bits' published by the husband of one of the Bothy members.  They are, I believe, intended to be humorous anecdotes from the author's life and he adopts a rather knowing, self-satisfied use of language that is familiar and not to my taste.  But that aside, I was left feeling that the whole thing had a decidely misogynistic flavour which seems entirely inappropriate to me.  I'm aware that there are very few women in our number here (me, Kate...? Anyone else? Lesley!) but I'm interested to hear if any of you feel I'm overreacting.  Here are a couple of quotes.  The first one, is the first paragraph in the book:

"As I put the phone down, the age-old question churned up the neurones.  If God was so omniscient, why couldn't He have seen all the trouble women were going to cause, and just made us hermaphrodites?"

"I'd read some of these stories about fair damsels making unreasonable demands on chivalric knights.  Slaying dragons seemed to figure prominently...Thankfully those days seemed to have gone, what with all the dragons turning into mothers-in-law..."

"Then there was her face (do I sound like a stereotypical male?) which wasn't ugly per se but would have been substantially improved if someone had done radical plastic surgery on it.  With a beer bottle."

These are probably the most obvious examples but they represent the wider tone.  In most cases, the stories could have been told without resorting to this kind of generalised stereotyping and been funnier for it which to my mind, begs the question of why he felt it was okay to include it.  This book was published in 2022 by the way, not 1982 when this kind of thing would probably have been considered 'normal'.  

So what do I do when Book Club rolls around again?  I don't know how his wife feels about this book.  Perhaps she's as proud as punch.  Perhaps she's embarrassed? Whatever I say I feel as if I'll be in the wrong somehow but I can't endorse this!  Arrgh.

[geoffr]

I’m not comfortable with the quotes, though some may think them funny, I don’t.
To the first, I might comment “perhaps the problem isn’t with women but with some men” not sure how the author’s wife might react.
I have limited experience with mothers in law, mine wasn’t a dragon, far from it. My wife’s step mother is also very nice and most of my friends don’t have any problems with their in-laws.
The third quote, just answer the question he poses, yes being the only possible answer.

I doubt it would help your mental health to remain silent. Freedom of speech implies that occasionally one’s comments might offend but to me the author’s comments offend.

[kate]

I could be very brief and just say He is a real sh*t of a man.
However, the serious assessment arises that he suffers from narcissism and his wife probably suffers as a result. I imagine she can do nothing to his satisfaction, but is probably controlled and her inadequacies pointed out frequently. She has my sympathy.

How to deal with the book at a Book Club meeting?
I would invite as many comments from others as I could encourage, without stating my own assessment.
People like the writer will not be changed, only recognized for what they are and avoided.
It would (will) be good if it forces a real discussion among the members of the group. Like you, I am surprised it has even been printed, let alone chosen as a subject but perhaps it is to highlight such people do exist and should be recognized as the poor specimens of humans that they are.

[zou]

Depending on how comfortable you in the group are with expressing individual comments about books, I see no reason not to simply say you didn't enjoy the style and felt that at times the language used was unacceptable, using the examples given. This could prompt a discussion on authors' use of first person (are they in character or speaking for themselves etc.) which could move the attention away from the personal (the writer is clearly a dickhead) toward a more general discussion, whilst still making clear that there were issues in the text.

[gezza]

I’m afraid I find his comments horrendously offensive wether written in jest or not. I would probably have a quiete word with his wife and explain your feelings to her so you don’t have to embarrass her in the group chat.

[spinno]

What was acceptable years ago isn't anymore as we have evolved as a species. The old "I'm the man therefore what I say and do is all that is important and relevant" has now gone. There are those people who haven't quite caught up yet, and the occasional reminder doesn't go amiss.
Tread carefully though, as their partners may have been browbeaten and downtrodden (gaslighted) into believing all is well.

[steveandthedogs]

Sounds like he is trying to be a very over-blown Les Dawson, but comes out more as a Bernard Manning.
No even remotely funny. He comes across as someone with a real chip on his shoulder and sense of his own importance linked with a need to put others down due to his own inadequacy.
I think Kate has the right idea of asking for comments without first stating your own.

S

[Fenris]

Not comfortable with the comments, especially the one advocating physical violence against the women (smashed in the face with a bottle)

I'd take Gezza's approach and have a word with the wife and explain your thoughts and how the book may come across to other members. It may save her some difficult questions in the group chat

[zx9]

I don't really know how book clubs work but it sounds like she has used the group to sell a few more books. IAs you strongly disagree with his sentiments you should present an eloquent argument for your opinion, just saying he is a dinosaur that should be stamped out does not help anyone, explaining why you think that way may help others who are in a similar relationship to the husband and wife.
The above said, are the locals in tune with his thinking? It is a bit difficult to judge small town living from a distance, I know my two grown up offspring found visits to the village I grew up in quite a culture shock.

[nimbus]

Jul 13, 2023 8:08:39 GMT kate said:

I could be very brief and just say He is a real sh*t of a man.
However, the serious assessment arises that he suffers from narcissism and his wife probably suffers as a result. I imagine she can do nothing to his satisfaction, but is probably controlled and her inadequacies pointed out frequently. She has my sympathy.

Or gives as good as she gets!

[kate]

Jul 13, 2023 10:14:25 GMT nimbus said:

Jul 13, 2023 8:08:39 GMT kate said:

I could be very brief and just say He is a real sh*t of a man.
However, the serious assessment arises that he suffers from narcissism and his wife probably suffers as a result. I imagine she can do nothing to his satisfaction, but is probably controlled and her inadequacies pointed out frequently. She has my sympathy.

Or gives as good as she gets!

I doubt that, but maybe she's strong.  Not worth it though... she'll never win or change him.

[willien]

The guy appears to be a perfect example of how having mental health issues and being a complete aeresole are not mutually incompatible. I personally would go with Kate's sggestions.

[peterba]

Jul 13, 2023 8:20:56 GMT gezza said:

I’m afraid I find his comments horrendously offensive wether written in jest or not.

This. That's it.

[peterba]

The first two quotes are obnoxious. The third is seriously beyond the limit.

[MJB]

It's a book club. Just say what you thought of the book.