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Post by mick on May 18, 2023 7:53:16 GMT
There's been a lot of fuss about this year's test.
Do you think that the sample questions are really as hard as people are making out? As an adult I'm finding it tough to relate to the abilities of a 10 or 11 year old. Of course one of the crits was inability of kids to finish in the allotted time and one can't judge from the data given.
Mick
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Post by kate on May 18, 2023 9:21:33 GMT
I am struck by the phrase reading paper. I see it as comprehension rather than the ability to read. I'm probably being picky and pedantic though.
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Post by JohnY on May 18, 2023 9:56:58 GMT
Reading without understanding is not particularly useful. The examples do require comprehension.
I didn't know the answer to question 8 because I had not read the set text.
The other two questions in the article were reasonable. Children did not need to know that Austin is not a state because the example passage contained the information "Austin is the capital city of the state of Texas ."
Question 17. "The teacher was concerned that the answer was "consume" but many children would have written "feeding". According to the mark scheme, both answers were acceptable." Feeding was wrong. Feeding could be the closest to eating but that wasn't the question.
Stats tests are meant to discriminate. Ideally very few children will achieve a score of 100%. Very few children should score 0%.
Its a long time since I taught. When I did teach I did so in a secondary school. Many of our first form would find those questions impossible to answer. Some would have found them difficult especially as the test is done against the clock. Few would have answered correctly.
It's unfortunate that children get so worked up about SATS. SATS are not an eleven plus upon which depends their future education. Teachers need to worry about their pupils performance. SATS measure school performance.
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Post by willien on May 18, 2023 11:39:38 GMT
Reading without understanding is not particularly useful. The examples do require comprehension. I didn't know the answer to question 8 because I had not read the set text. The other two questions in the article were reasonable. Children did not need to know that Austin is not a state because the example passage contained the information "Austin is the capital city of the state of Texas ." Question 17. "The teacher was concerned that the answer was "consume" but many children would have written "feeding". According to the mark scheme, both answers were acceptable." Feeding was wrong. Feeding could be the closest to eating but that wasn't the question. Stats tests are meant to discriminate. Ideally very few children will achieve a score of 100%. Very few children should score 0%. Its a long time since I taught. When I did teach I did so in a secondary school. Many of our first form would find those questions impossible to answer. Some would have found them difficult especially as the test is done against the clock. Few would have answered correctly. It's unfortunate that children get so worked up about SATS. SATS are not an eleven plus upon which depends their future education. Teachers need to worry about their pupils performance. SATS measure school performance. In the context of the test "feeding" is correct. IMO of course. |
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Post by mick on May 18, 2023 14:16:55 GMT
Kate. I know only five primary schools well. In each their reading books are colour coded or have some number designating difficulty. In each school the child cannot progress until they successfully pass a computerised comprehension test on the book just finished. I’m guessing that’s gone national.
John. The set text for question 8 is right there “she wriggled back inside the tent” Both of my grandsons chose the correct answer - but one is a couple of years older and the other one year younger than the cohort that the test is aimed at.
Feeding is clearly correct in this context. The fact that the examiners allowed a mark for either answer says that they agree. I could argue that having two possible answers and asking for one is a fault in the question.
Mick
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Post by geoffr on May 18, 2023 16:23:17 GMT
I have downloaded the test and the booklet. I suspect, though I haven't gone into detail, that it would present no problem for me, which I take as indication that a teacher should not have any problems either. The excuse that a child might not know that Austin isn't a state is refuted by the line "Austin is the capital city of the state of Texas"
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Post by JohnY on May 18, 2023 16:30:51 GMT
The text for question 8 was not in the article in the link. It was in a further link to the reading booklet.
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Post by mick on May 18, 2023 20:14:13 GMT
The text for question 8 was not in the article in the link. It was in a further link to the reading booklet. It was most certainly in the article and still is! Immediately beneath "Question 8". If it works I'll copy it below.
Question 8
She wriggled back inside the tent...
What does this tell you about how Priya got inside the tent? Tick one.
She ran quickly inside.
She jumped through the flap.
She had to squeeze in.
She crept in quietly.
Answer: The answer was that she had to squeeze in, but the teacher believed many children would have chosen crept in.
Copying and pasting has changed the fonts. If you go back to the original article you will see that the 'set text' is italics and the rest is not.
If you , an adult and, if I read correctly, a teacher, can't see it then maybe the kids would have struggled.
Mick
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Post by dreampolice on May 18, 2023 20:39:18 GMT
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Post by JohnY on May 18, 2023 21:05:29 GMT
The text for question 8 was not in the article in the link. It was in a further link to the reading booklet. It was most certainly in the article and still is! Immediately beneath "Question 8". If it works I'll copy it below.
Question 8
She wriggled back inside the tent...
What does this tell you about how Priya got inside the tent? Tick one.
She ran quickly inside.
She jumped through the flap.
She had to squeeze in.
She crept in quietly.
Answer: The answer was that she had to squeeze in, but the teacher believed many children would have chosen crept in.
Copying and pasting has changed the fonts. If you go back to the original article you will see that the 'set text' is italics and the rest is not.
If you , an adult and, if I read correctly, a teacher, can't see it then maybe the kids would have struggled.
Mick
You're right. The answer was in the question. I was looking for another text. I should have read the question. You will not be surprised that I failed the eleven plus. Rather expensively for my parents I did pass the entrance exam for The Grammar School. |
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Post by JohnY on May 18, 2023 21:18:20 GMT
Only the créme de la créme should get everything right. Only the most severely challenged should get everything wrong. The tests are intended to spot failing schools. Children should not be stressed by these tests; their secondary education does not depend on them. I blame teachers for the stress. Their own stress 'rubs off'. In this post how many senior junior school pupils and junior school teachers would understand the terms 'créme de la créme' and 'rubs off'?
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Post by dreampolice on May 18, 2023 21:23:16 GMT
I was going to write quite a lengthy reply, but it really isn't worth it. Did you read the TES report?
Ever wondered which country has the most tested primary school children in the world? How well does it work for them?
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Post by JohnY on May 18, 2023 21:28:00 GMT
I was going to write quite a lengthy reply, but it really isn't worth it. Ever wondered which country has the most tested primary school children in the world? How well does it work for them? Japan?
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Post by dreampolice on May 18, 2023 21:30:10 GMT
I was going to write quite a lengthy reply, but it really isn't worth it. Ever wondered which country has the most tested primary school children in the world? How well does it work for them? Japan?
No. A bit closer to home. Was one of my wife's bugbears. But we wouldn't expect the teachers, the SEN's, headteachers to know best. Who knows best, well old folk who weren't tested the same way and as often, other than an 11+ that they all bang on about. They know best. So therefore it must be the fault of teachers. English children are tested longer, harder and younger than anywhere else in the world, according to an influential report that compares school standards in 22 countries.It is worth reading the TES linked above which also shows the difference between this year and last year, the Dept of education guidelines etc and why it has been said to be more difficult. Perhaps you could find the differences between the curriculums for primary school children now compared to years ago when we were at school and the amount that each govt adds. The time in school hasn't increased in which they are taught but the curriculum content has. |
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Post by geoffr on May 18, 2023 21:34:04 GMT
If teachers were having problems with the paper, one has to question whether they should be teaching at all.
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