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Post by JohnY on May 18, 2023 22:34:15 GMT
If teachers were having problems with the paper, one has to question whether they should be teaching at all. Teaching in many schools is not a tempting career. We should be happy that anyone is prepared to do the job. If you have a good useful degree then why put up with stroppy children, stroppier parents and heads that are so far out of their depth that they cannot support their staff. I realise that there are exceptions.
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Post by terrywoodenpic on May 19, 2023 7:49:15 GMT
If teachers were having problems with the paper, one has to question whether they should be teaching at all. Absolutely. |
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Post by mick on May 19, 2023 7:54:02 GMT
No. A bit closer to home. Was one of my wife's bugbears. But we wouldn't expect the teachers, the SEN's, headteachers to know best. Who knows best, well old folk who weren't tested the same way and as often, other than an 11+ that they all bang on about. They know best. So therefore it must be the fault of teachers. English children are tested longer, harder and younger than anywhere else in the world, according to an influential report that compares school standards in 22 countries.It is worth reading the TES linked above which also shows the difference between this year and last year, the Dept of education guidelines etc and why it has been said to be more difficult. Perhaps you could find the differences between the curriculums for primary school children now compared to years ago when we were at school and the amount that each govt adds. The time in school hasn't increased in which they are taught but the curriculum content has. An interesting 'rant' (forgive me please) and IMHO pretty well aimed. Having a non professional interest in education it annoys me when folk who don't know express entirely inaccurate opinions. Even though I have an interest I know that I know little and try to be careful!
The TES article is interesting and begins to show why some kids struggled. It also explains something I noticed when my grandsons were shown the questions. The older one had the 'Texas' answer more or less instantly, long before he could have properly read the passage. I asked him how and his answer was along the lines. "I'm used to these things being against the clock. I read the question first and could immediately see that Texas was the only US state mentioned, and so it had to be that." On further questioning, I could tell that his knowledge of the rest of the paragraph was, at best, skimpy. The younger one read the question and then the passage until he came to the answer. It took him noticeably longer to get there.
Moving on. I have the impression that the expectations of kids today is higher than long ago. Of course I don't really remember when I was taught certain things but I don't remember being taught English grammar in the depth that I see my grandchildren being taught. For example, the 9-year-old was explaining the meaning of onomatopoeia to me yesterday. Were you expected to know that at age 9? I'm pretty sure that I wasn't. I'm also pretty sure that I've never been taught about a 'fronted adverbial' - something else I learned from the homework of the youngster.
Enough of that.
Mick
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Post by geoffr on May 19, 2023 8:18:16 GMT
I have the impression that the expectations of kids today is higher than long ago. Of course I don't really remember when I was taught certain things but I don't remember being taught English grammar in the depth that I see my grandchildren being taught. For example, the 9-year-old was explaining the meaning of onomatopoeia to me yesterday. Were you expected to know that at age 9? I'm pretty sure that I wasn't. I'm also pretty sure that I've never been taught about a 'fronted adverbial' - something else I learned from the homework of the youngster. This is an example of something I see as the move from education to academia. Does a 9 year old need to know about a 'fronted adverbial'? I haven't a clue what it is/they are and I have managed to get by in this state for 60 years. I am sure the professionals would say that knowing such things is essential. As someone who has worked in the real, if restricted, world I would say that it isn't necessary and doesn't enhance one's life experience.
In my opinion education is, or should be, about preparing children for life not foe academia.
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Post by mick on May 19, 2023 9:08:43 GMT
I have the impression that the expectations of kids today is higher than long ago. Of course I don't really remember when I was taught certain things but I don't remember being taught English grammar in the depth that I see my grandchildren being taught. For example, the 9-year-old was explaining the meaning of onomatopoeia to me yesterday. Were you expected to know that at age 9? I'm pretty sure that I wasn't. I'm also pretty sure that I've never been taught about a 'fronted adverbial' - something else I learned from the homework of the youngster. This is an example of something I see as the move from education to academia. Does a 9 year old need to know about a 'fronted adverbial'? I haven't a clue what it is/they are and I have managed to get by in this state for 60 years. I am sure the professionals would say that knowing such things is essential. As someone who has worked in the real, if restricted, world I would say that it isn't necessary and doesn't enhance one's life experience.
In my opinion education is, or should be, about preparing children for life not foe academia.
I was trying to make the point that education has not been 'dumbed down' which is an opinion that many hold. Your reply, I think, proves my point very neatly.
I admit that the examples I chose were deliberately a bit weird (but real nonetheless). I had hoped to raise a flicker of a smile - but obviously failed.
I will give further, real, examples which I hope won't raise your ire quite as much. First let me state my 'credentials' for making the upcoming statements. I have two grandchildren in primary years 4 and 5 and the children of a niece also in years 4 and 5. So, four kids in three schools in the South East, the Midlands and the North West.
All four kids have a weekly, 20 word, spelling test which gives the lie to the often expressed opinion that spelling doesn't matter these days. All four kids have homework that often, very often, tests knowledge of punctuation (not my strong point) including the dreaded apostrophe.
All four kids have their 'times tables' banged into them week after week. I actually do remember having times tables drummed into me but what I remember is being asked, for example, what's 7x8. These days the kids are expected to know the answer to that as well as what's 56 divided by 7 (or 8). Each of the kids uses an on line resource that measures both accuracy and time. The grandson who lives with me is very disappointed if his average response time goes over a couple of seconds. Apparently there's a national test, done in year 5, that allows 6 seconds per answer and that's an age.
I won't go on but hope that you can see that I strongly believe that education has not been 'dumbed down'
Mick
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Post by geoffr on May 19, 2023 9:26:38 GMT
This is an example of something I see as the move from education to academia. Does a 9 year old need to know about a 'fronted adverbial'? I haven't a clue what it is/they are and I have managed to get by in this state for 60 years. I am sure the professionals would say that knowing such things is essential. As someone who has worked in the real, if restricted, world I would say that it isn't necessary and doesn't enhance one's life experience.
In my opinion education is, or should be, about preparing children for life not foe academia.
I was trying to make the point that education has not been 'dumbed down' which is an opinion that many hold. Your reply, I think, proves my point very neatly.
I admit that the examples I chose were deliberately a bit weird (but real nonetheless). I had hoped to raise a flicker of a smile - but obviously failed.
I will give further, real, examples which I hope won't raise your ire quite as much. First let me state my 'credentials' for making the upcoming statements. I have two grandchildren in primary years 4 and 5 and the children of a niece also in years 4 and 5. So, four kids in three schools in the South East, the Midlands and the North West.
All four kids have a weekly, 20 word, spelling test which gives the lie to the often expressed opinion that spelling doesn't matter these days. All four kids have homework that often, very often, tests knowledge of punctuation (not my strong point) including the dreaded apostrophe.
All four kids have their 'times tables' banged into them week after week. I actually do remember having times tables drummed into me but what I remember is being asked, for example, what's 7x8. These days the kids are expected to know the answer to that as well as what's 56 divided by 7 (or 8). Each of the kids uses an on line resource that measures both accuracy and time. The grandson who lives with me is very disappointed if his average response time goes over a couple of seconds. Apparently there's a national test, done in year 5, that allows 6 seconds per answer and that's an age.
I won't go on but hope that you can see that I strongly believe that education has not been 'dumbed down'
Mick
Perhaps you would like to read my response again. I am not saying education has been dumbed down, quite the opposite. I get the impression that, in some cases, the system is trying to turn children into academics.
I remember spelling tests and times tables from infant school and it is great that these essentials are being perpetuated. I'm just not sure that knowing about 'fronted adverbial' is either necessary of life enhancing. A quick search reveals, as I expected, that this is something we use all the time, does knowing the technical term for it matter?
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Post by Chester PB on May 19, 2023 16:23:33 GMT
I looked at the examples on the BBC website, and don't understand what all the excitement was about. If the teachers expect every pupil to get a high score then the questions would be very simple and the test would be useless. If it identifies pupils who may need more help or encouragement with reading, then that is worthwhile. The BBBC website said that the test was taken by 10 and 11 year olds, and I recall at that age being given a page from a Charles Dickens novel to read and then being asked questions about it. That was the first year that pupils in my primary school did not take the '11 Plus', but were instead rated by teachers who in those days took the responsibility seriously and accepted that some pupils were not going to get a good score, however much they would have liked them to.
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Post by JohnY on May 20, 2023 18:18:28 GMT
I gave you a like for that but it is conditional.
Charles Dickens was a left-wing author writing in a left wing rag. I have never rated him. I hated him from a very young age. I always liked factual material. Novels were and are for girls.
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Post by willien on May 20, 2023 18:29:24 GMT
I gave you a like for that but it is conditional. Charles Dickens was a left-wing author writing in a left wing rag. I have never rated him. I hated him from a very young age. I always liked factual material. Novels were and are for girls. One of your best yet.
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Post by zou on May 20, 2023 18:31:28 GMT
I gave you a like for that but it is conditional. Charles Dickens was a left-wing author writing in a left wing rag. I have never rated him. I hated him from a very young age. I always liked factual material. Novels were and are for girls. One of your best yet.
He's still bitter about the gammon 'slur' I think! |
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Post by JohnY on May 20, 2023 18:46:34 GMT
He's still bitter about the gammon 'slur' I think! Thanks for that. Anyone who uses 'gammon' as a slur is a racist. |
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Post by zou on May 20, 2023 18:49:32 GMT
He's still bitter about the gammon 'slur' I think! Thanks for that. Anyone who uses 'gammon' as a slur is a racist. Anyone who complains about white people in the UK as victims of racism is a gammon. |
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Post by JohnY on May 20, 2023 18:52:40 GMT
Thanks for that. Anyone who uses 'gammon' as a slur is a racist. Anyone who complains about white people in the UK as victims of racism is a gammon. I'm not complaining. I welcome the opportunity to call out the users of the term gammon in this context. |
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Post by zou on May 20, 2023 19:03:05 GMT
Anyone who complains about white people in the UK as victims of racism is a gammon. I'm not complaining. I welcome the opportunity to call out the users of the term gammon in this context. As do I welcome the opportunity to call out gammon in this context.  |
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Post by gray1720 on May 20, 2023 19:19:54 GMT
Irony. Does not mean "like iron".
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