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Post by JohnY on Apr 21, 2023 19:05:42 GMT
To me, it's as if the USA is going back to the "Wild West" we see in old movies. Anyone can carry a gun, used it whenever they feel like it to kill anyone they don't like. I'm not sure that their Constitution was written with that in mind Those people who wrote and approved the constitution did not have in mind a multiethnic population. Its no wonder that BLM is an anti white movement.
All very sad.
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Post by willien on Apr 21, 2023 19:08:33 GMT
As I understand it the right to carry arms is there to allow the citizens to defend themselves in the event that their government oppresses them - presumably by saying what you are doing is not only immoral but illegal so stop now.
As Rich Hall pointed out the amendment was enacted when the state of the art personal anti oppression defence system was a muzzle loading flintlock.
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Post by JohnY on Apr 21, 2023 19:16:08 GMT
As I understand it the right to carry arms is there to allow the citizens to defend themselves in the event that their government oppresses them - presumably by saying what you are doing is not only immoral but illegal so stop now. As Rich Hall pointed out the amendment was enacted when the state of the art personal anti oppression defence system was a muzzle loading flintlock. The user had time to think between each shot. The weapon could not be left ready loaded for any length of time before it became damp. |
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Post by geoffr on Apr 21, 2023 21:37:37 GMT
As I understand it the right to carry arms is there to allow the citizens to defend themselves in the event that their government oppresses them - presumably by saying what you are doing is not only immoral but illegal so stop now. As Rich Hall pointed out the amendment was enacted when the state of the art personal anti oppression defence system was a muzzle loading flintlock. Which was what the military used hence the NRA see no problem with citizens having assault rifles! The actual wording is “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Quite how the need for a “well regulated Militia” has morphed into “anyone can have a gun” I can’t see. I don’t think the people who drafted the amendment intended that arms were for personal protection. If you read the constitution with the amendments in the right places you might get a different view from that of the gun lobby. Unfortunately Supreme Court rulings have only served to complicate matters. However, there’s nothing wrong with citizens owning guns if that ownership is in accordance with good supporting legislation and training, as in Switzerland or Israel. The freedom to buy a gun without training or support is a large part of the problem. It appears to me that the most recently reported shootings were carried out by shooters behaving totally irrationally. |
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Post by John Farrell on Apr 21, 2023 22:08:49 GMT
One can only assume that arms manufacturers have deep pockets and great lobbying power.
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Post by nickr on Apr 22, 2023 8:42:30 GMT
To me, it's as if the USA is going back to the "Wild West" we see in old movies. Anyone can carry a gun, used it whenever they feel like it to kill anyone they don't like. I'm not sure that their Constitution was written with that in mind Daft thing is that in the real wild west, there were significantly tiighter gun controls - for example, on entering Dodge City, one was required to surrender one's guns. |
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Post by MJB on Apr 22, 2023 9:47:38 GMT
Those people who wrote and approved the constitution did not have in mind a multiethnic population. Its no wonder that BLM is an anti white movement.
All very sad.
The reason the founding fathers didn't consider a multi-ethnic population is because they considered the native population as inferiors, and people of other race as property. Heck, even the post civil war goverments didn't even recognise Chinese people as people. In short they were racist. To suggest that BLM is anti—white is, even by your wine induced standards, utterly ridiculous. |
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Post by nickr on Apr 22, 2023 15:41:51 GMT
Those people who wrote and approved the constitution did not have in mind a multiethnic population. Its no wonder that BLM is an anti white movement.
All very sad.
The reason the founding fathers didn't consider a multi-ethnic population is because they considered the native population as inferiors, and people of other race as property. Heck, even the post civil war goverments didn't even recognise Chinese people as people. In short they were racist. To suggest that BLM is anti—white is, even by your wine induced standards, utterly ridiculous. Indeed. That's a very polite and kind way of putting it. Breathtakingly ignorant is the kindest I can manage. One of the main catalysts for the American Revolution was the 1772 Somerset Case, which ruled that slavery did not and could not exist in the UK without a specific act of Parliament, and started a wave of abolitionism. This severely worried slaveowners, including the likes of George Washington, and the foundation of the USA Was thus largely as a method of retaining the institution of slavery - which makes their rhetoric about freedom all the more dishonest and hypocritical. And then there's manifest destiny... Racism doesn't get more institutional. |
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Post by JohnY on Apr 22, 2023 19:47:17 GMT
The reason the founding fathers didn't consider a multi-ethnic population is because they considered the native population as inferiors, and people of other race as property. Heck, even the post civil war goverments didn't even recognise Chinese people as people. In short they were racist. To suggest that BLM is anti—white is, even by your wine induced standards, utterly ridiculous. Indeed. That's a very polite and kind way of putting it. Breathtakingly ignorant is the kindest I can manage. One of the main catalysts for the American Revolution was the 1772 Somerset Case, which ruled that slavery did not and could not exist in the UK without a specific act of Parliament, and started a wave of abolitionism. This severely worried slaveowners, including the likes of George Washington, and the foundation of the USA Was thus largely as a method of retaining the institution of slavery - which makes their rhetoric about freedom all the more dishonest and hypocritical. And then there's manifest destiny... Racism doesn't get more institutional. The movement in the US is clearly racist. I am suggesting that they have good reason to be so. They were and are treated badly. UK has largely mended its ways but not in all organisations and communities.
Slavery is alive and well in most of the world especially in those communities that believe that slaves should be treated well. I would prefer all slaves be freed.
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Post by MJB on Apr 22, 2023 20:06:31 GMT
The movement in the US is clearly racist. How did you come to this conclusion? I'm genuinely intrigued. |
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Post by willien on Apr 22, 2023 20:23:51 GMT
The movement in the US is clearly racist. How did you come to this conclusion? I'm genuinely intrigued. Really? I am genuinely baffled.
Back to the right to arm bears - One of the current or past members of Metallica apparently likes to kill them with crossbows... so not being a heavy metal fan... bears with telescopic sighted sniper weapons works for me.
Yogi and Booboo to you too.  |
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neilt3
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Post by neilt3 on Apr 22, 2023 23:29:25 GMT
Guns are sadly but just one issue. My husband is American and he has said repeatedly that IF we were to go for a visit, there's a limited number of states he'd be prepared to travel to. Basically no red states. But I have no interest in going at all. We'd certainly never move back. I would encourage anyone with dual nationality to keep that very quiet and never darken the doors of the USA! I overheard my son talking to some of his friends last night and he was saying that the weird thing about America's attitude to the taliban etc is that the only reason they abhor/are against them is because they are not Christian. The belief that women are second class citizens who should not be allowed to be educated, own property, make their own money, have a say in whether or not they get married, have any kind of agency over their own bodies is shared by both the Taliban and the far right GOP members. Same with homosexuality and trans rights. There's very little difference. There's now a bill being pushed through in the US that says girls can't discuss menstruation at school. Even if their parents haven't told them about it, they have 't yet had any sex ed. at school and their period starts before the cut off age (which I believe is about 12...way after a lot of girls start menstruating) they will be criminalised for asking for help at school. Of course these are the people who think Michaelangelo's David is pornographic. There's no help for them really. I think the problem arises as a combination of those making the rules being religious nutters and inbred morons . The same people are probably still upset that slavery was abolished . |
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Post by geoffr on Apr 23, 2023 10:38:52 GMT
Guns are sadly but just one issue. My husband is American and he has said repeatedly that IF we were to go for a visit, there's a limited number of states he'd be prepared to travel to. Basically no red states. But I have no interest in going at all. We'd certainly never move back. I would encourage anyone with dual nationality to keep that very quiet and never darken the doors of the USA! I overheard my son talking to some of his friends last night and he was saying that the weird thing about America's attitude to the taliban etc is that the only reason they abhor/are against them is because they are not Christian. The belief that women are second class citizens who should not be allowed to be educated, own property, make their own money, have a say in whether or not they get married, have any kind of agency over their own bodies is shared by both the Taliban and the far right GOP members. Same with homosexuality and trans rights. There's very little difference. There's now a bill being pushed through in the US that says girls can't discuss menstruation at school. Even if their parents haven't told them about it, they have 't yet had any sex ed. at school and their period starts before the cut off age (which I believe is about 12...way after a lot of girls start menstruating) they will be criminalised for asking for help at school. Of course these are the people who think Michaelangelo's David is pornographic. There's no help for them really. I think the problem arises as a combination of those making the rules being religious nutters and inbred morons. The same people are probably still upset that slavery was abolished. I have family in the United States and many friends, aside from one comment, which I put down to ignorance, none have ever struck me as racist or fanatical. However, I have noticed a more relaxed atmosphere north of the border when it comes to people of different ethnicities. One thing that is noticeable in the US is that politicians seem to be wealthy. One cannot be president without a great deal of money. From what I have seen and read about Trump, it appears that he believes himself to be above the law. I’m lead to understand that he thinks money can solve all his problems, paying people to remain silent for example. I don’t believe that every politician at every level shares his approach but it seems a number do. It does not require a great leap of imagination to see that someone who believes themselves to be above the law might look down on those they consider to be subject to the law. That doesn’t explain why so many citizens are of the opinion that they need to be armed for their own protection. It does explain some of the political decisions being made. Aside from Trump, who is suggesting that people go out and buy a firearm? I can, to some extent, understand why a member of a minority might feel insecure. Anyone who feels threatened might determine that they need protection but it appears to be the majority who buy guns. No, I think it is a fear of people who are different that is at the root of the problem, not just in the USA but worldwide. Most of us want to belong and generally we tend to want to belong to a group that is like us. Putin, for some reason, believes that “The West” wants to invade Russia. I don’t. Nor do I believe does any western leader. Translate that to a group who feel insecure and it is easy to see how, given weapons, situations escalate. In some of the mass shootings the perpetrator has been excluded from a group to which they wished to belong or to which they once belonged. I don’t have the answers but, removing the means to kill from the equation seems a logical first step. |
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Post by Kath on Apr 23, 2023 12:38:12 GMT
I have family in the United States and many friends, aside from one comment, which I put down to ignorance, none have ever struck me as racist or fanatical. However, I have noticed a more relaxed atmosphere north of the border when it comes to people of different ethnicities. My step-son-in-law is utterly and openly racist. Thinks Trump is some kind of messiah. I can't quite work out if my stepdaughter agrees with him or not or if she just finds other things to love about him and can therefore ignore the side that she dislikes. It causes me some angst. America is basically messed up and I don't think we're all that far behind them. |
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Post by geoffr on Apr 23, 2023 12:52:52 GMT
I have family in the United States and many friends, aside from one comment, which I put down to ignorance, none have ever struck me as racist or fanatical. However, I have noticed a more relaxed atmosphere north of the border when it comes to people of different ethnicities. My step-son-in-law is utterly and openly racist. Thinks Trump is some kind of messiah. I can't quite work out if my stepdaughter agrees with him or not or if she just finds other things to love about him and can therefore ignore the side that she dislikes. It causes me some angst. America is basically messed up and I don't think we're all that far behind them. I fear you are right |
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