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Post by dreampolice on Jul 15, 2024 5:56:46 GMT
In the hands of a well trained marksman with non-standard ammunition. At least that's what a former sniper in the 'Rifles' tells me. Based on my own shooting experience a head shot at 200 yards would be challenging for most people with a bolt action, long barrelled weapon. We now know that the gunman wasn’t particularly skilled, but he was much better than me, I think I could miss a brick wall. Or as we used to say if someone had a bad shoot “you couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo” |
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Post by geoffr on Jul 15, 2024 6:47:19 GMT
We now know that the gunman wasn’t particularly skilled, but he was much better than me, I think I could miss a brick wall. Or as we used to say if someone had a bad shoot “you couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo” Sounds about right, but why would I want to do that? |
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Post by daves on Jul 15, 2024 6:59:19 GMT
I have quite strong cross dominance so I'm likely to see the rear sight with my right eye but the front sight with my left, no idea where the bullet will end up. I can't even close my left eye independently. I could use a 'scope sight.
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Post by dreampolice on Jul 15, 2024 7:09:16 GMT
I never did my rifle course. I was going to go for the assessment which you needed to pass to go on the course, but it involved a lot of height (was in the velodrome in Manchester) and going from beam to beam, and thought f@#% that, so never got to shoot a rifle.
When I covered the political conferences in Manchester, as a supervisor I used to visit various rifle points. I was crapping myself when on the roofs of the buildings even though I was no where near the edge unlike the riflemen (they were tethered at all times).
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Post by MJB on Jul 15, 2024 8:12:22 GMT
We now know that the gunman wasn’t particularly skilled, but he was much better than me, I think I could miss a brick wall. Or as we used to say if someone had a bad shoot “you couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo” Well you wouldn't pass a Red Tractor farm assurance audit if they could. |
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Post by zou on Jul 15, 2024 8:27:28 GMT
Sounds like Trump will stand down as well as Biden, he said "evil won't win." Or have I misunderstood?
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Post by spinno on Jul 15, 2024 8:49:00 GMT
Sounds like Trump will stand down as well as Biden, he said "evil won't win." Or have I misunderstood? Sadly... |
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Post by Chester PB on Jul 15, 2024 15:33:13 GMT
Depends on the desired result - one victim or numerous ones (the school comparison). Since survival was unlikely, the number of dead and injured might not even have been a consideration. Also, I assume the 'spray and pray' approach requires much less skill than the careful use of a sniper's rifle to ensure that only the desired target is hit (much like the way in which some cameras are used, if it's not too tasteless to make the comparison). Spray and pray would not be successful if the first shot missed. Controlled breathing, steady pulse (maybe with a beta blocker nowadays), bolt action rifle, reliable consistent ammunition (i.e same muzzle velocity in practice as for the critical shot) hopefully no wind or heat haze and 130 yards should not be a problem. Of course I am not an expert. I last fired a rifle over sixty years ago. Also most cadets only shot at 220 yards. Only those of us showing promise got to shoot at 440yds. I wasn't competitive and was quite laid back about it. In a real war situation all tensed up, I may not have been so accurate. We were shooting only about 14 years after WW2. We were too young to remember the war but all adults remembered it well. The idea of training schoolboys to kill might seem immoral to many people today. It was perfectly normal in 1957. We normally shot at what I'd call bull's eye targets but sometimes on the short 25 yd range at school (with .22 rifles) we shot at cardboard cutouts of German soldiers. The target areas were rectangles on the chest.
The school I was sent to still had a 'cadet corps' when I went there, complete with army uniforms, marching, drilling and shooting. Apart from the colour of the uniforms, it reminded me of old films of the Hitler Youth and appeared to instil some of the same values in its members. I didn't join, and later found out there were suspicions that in 1939 records of its previous members had been supplied to the Army for use in 'targeted' conscription if required. |
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Post by Chester PB on Jul 15, 2024 15:35:27 GMT
Sounds like Trump will stand down as well as Biden, he said "evil won't win." Or have I misunderstood? A victim of naive optimism faced with harsh reality. |
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Post by JohnY on Jul 15, 2024 18:02:29 GMT
Spray and pray would not be successful if the first shot missed. Controlled breathing, steady pulse (maybe with a beta blocker nowadays), bolt action rifle, reliable consistent ammunition (i.e same muzzle velocity in practice as for the critical shot) hopefully no wind or heat haze and 130 yards should not be a problem. Of course I am not an expert. I last fired a rifle over sixty years ago. Also most cadets only shot at 220 yards. Only those of us showing promise got to shoot at 440yds. I wasn't competitive and was quite laid back about it. In a real war situation all tensed up, I may not have been so accurate. We were shooting only about 14 years after WW2. We were too young to remember the war but all adults remembered it well. The idea of training schoolboys to kill might seem immoral to many people today. It was perfectly normal in 1957. We normally shot at what I'd call bull's eye targets but sometimes on the short 25 yd range at school (with .22 rifles) we shot at cardboard cutouts of German soldiers. The target areas were rectangles on the chest.
The school I was sent to still had a 'cadet corps' when I went there, complete with army uniforms, marching, drilling and shooting. Apart from the colour of the uniforms, it reminded me of old films of the Hitler Youth and appeared to instil some of the same values in its members. I didn't join, and later found out there were suspicions that in 1939 records of its previous members had been supplied to the Army for use in 'targeted' conscription if required. I wasn't into drill and all that stuff but did enjoy rifle shooting. I also enjoyed techi stuff. Annual camp was hell until I joined the signals section. After that night exercises for me were spent in the back of a TA Champ with a number 19 set. I also on one occasion was a make weight for the air section when we got a few minutes in a chipmunk. The morning weather was not good and I did not expect a flight, however it cleared up later and I got at least 40 minutes in which we flew over Leeds. I even got a chance to fly the thing but to my shame hadn't got a clue. After some encoragement I had a go. That's when I found out that flying a fixed wing aircraft is very instinctive provided someone else looks after all the knobs and switches and navigation. |
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Post by willien on Jul 15, 2024 18:26:12 GMT
The school I was sent to still had a 'cadet corps' when I went there, complete with army uniforms, marching, drilling and shooting. Apart from the colour of the uniforms, it reminded me of old films of the Hitler Youth and appeared to instil some of the same values in its members. I didn't join, and later found out there were suspicions that in 1939 records of its previous members had been supplied to the Army for use in 'targeted' conscription if required. I wasn't into drill and all that stuff but did enjoy rifle shooting. I also enjoyed techi stuff. Annual camp was hell until I joined the signals section. After that night exercises for me were spent in the back of a TA Champ with a number 19 set. I also on one occasion was a make weight for the air section when we got a few minutes in a chipmunk. The morning weather was not good and I did not expect a flight, however it cleared up later and I got at least 40 minutes in which we flew over Leeds. I even got a chance to fly the thing but to my shame hadn't got a clue. After some encoragement I had a go. That's when I found out that flying a fixed wing aircraft is very instinctive provided someone else looks after all the knobs and switches and navigation. Sitting in business class with some nuts and a G&T was my forte. |
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Post by zou on Jul 15, 2024 19:05:50 GMT
I wasn't into drill and all that stuff but did enjoy rifle shooting. I also enjoyed techi stuff. Annual camp was hell until I joined the signals section. After that night exercises for me were spent in the back of a TA Champ with a number 19 set. I also on one occasion was a make weight for the air section when we got a few minutes in a chipmunk. The morning weather was not good and I did not expect a flight, however it cleared up later and I got at least 40 minutes in which we flew over Leeds. I even got a chance to fly the thing but to my shame hadn't got a clue. After some encoragement I had a go. That's when I found out that flying a fixed wing aircraft is very instinctive provided someone else looks after all the knobs and switches and navigation. Sitting in business class with some nuts and a G&T was my forte. Yeah, plenty of nuts in that section but the G&T helps I suppose. I had a very brief go in a wee Piper once in France. Easy peasy. I was also once in complete control* of a 747, but it was on the ground. *Well it couldn't go anywhere until I took the parking brake off, so I'm claiming it!  |
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Post by JohnY on Jul 15, 2024 19:08:47 GMT
A wee piper is fine. Just don't touch the rudder bar/pedals. The rudder is advanced.
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Post by MJB on Jul 15, 2024 19:10:38 GMT
Sitting in business class with some nuts and a G&T was my forte. Yeah, plenty of nuts in that section but the G&T helps I suppose. I had a very brief go in a wee Piper once in France. Easy peasy. I was also once in complete control* of a 747, but it was on the ground. *Well it couldn't go anywhere until I took the parking brake off, so I'm claiming it! What you do with a wee piper is none of my business, but if it stops them torturing cats I'm all for it. |
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Post by spinno on Jul 15, 2024 19:57:15 GMT
Yeah, plenty of nuts in that section but the G&T helps I suppose. I had a very brief go in a wee Piper once in France. Easy peasy. I was also once in complete control* of a 747, but it was on the ground. *Well it couldn't go anywhere until I took the parking brake off, so I'm claiming it! What you do with a wee piper is none of my business, but if it stops them torturing cats I'm all for it. Never mind the cats what aboot the sassenachs |
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