Parking

[mick]

I've just received notice of a parking 'fine' from UKPC . I'm supposed to have parked for 9 minutes , starting at 1am last Saturday, "during the restricted no parking period".

It gives a postcode, too wide for precision of location and a photo which, except for the number plate is just black. It's my number for sure.

My issue is that I think that I was in bed asleep! Have I been cloned?

Mick

[El Sid]

Something similar happened to me a few years back... I got a ticket from Croydon Council for illegal parking which would have been quite a trick as I was 70 miles away at work and have never been to Croydon ever. Fortunately I was able to challenge it with a timekeeping record and security photograph from work which proved beyond doubt it wasn't me or my car. The ticket was cancelled and I never had any similar issues so possibly it was some kind of clerical error rather than a deliberate clone job where you might expect repeat issues.

I hope that UKPC see sense when you point out the facts and that you haven't been cloned.

[spinno]

Apr 26, 2024 11:15:30 GMT mick said:

I've just received notice of a parking 'fine' from UKPC . I'm supposed to have parked for 9 minutes , starting at 1am last Saturday, "during the restricted no parking period".

It gives a postcode, too wide for precision of location and a photo which, except for the number plate is just black. It's my number for sure.

My issue is that I think that I was in bed asleep! Have I been cloned?

Mick

Have you gone on their website to establish facts- enter your fine reference and vehicle reg. If they don't tell you where then you must appeal. They should tell you where you were parked, and what the contravention is, precisely.

[Ivor E Tower]

Also - do the car details match? Ask for a clear photo of the car and ask them to check with DVLA that the vehicle make and model match that of the plate. If necessary you now need to inform the police and DVLA and your insurers that your plate (and if appropriate, car) have been cloned. You may wish to ask the DVLA to issue you with a new registration number (or you may wish to buy one yourself) to assist in reducng future hassle from offences being commited by the car with "your" plate

[willien]

Apr 27, 2024 19:36:30 GMT Ivor E Tower said:

Also - do the car details match? Ask for a clear photo of the car and ask them to check with DVLA that the vehicle make and model match that of the plate. If necessary you now need to inform the police and DVLA and your insurers that your plate (and if appropriate, car) have been cloned. You may wish to ask the DVLA to issue you with a new registration number (or you may wish to buy one yourself) to assist in reducng future hassle from offences being commited by the car with "your" plate

A Long, long time ago one of my best buddies was rammed of a fife motorway by a green capri.  Driving a mini he was smart/lucky to bail ot before it hit a bollard - mini frontal impact = gear box in drivers seat.  He managed to remember the number.  The polis informed him dryly that he was mistaken.  They had checked the number plates and rather than a green capri it had definitley been an orange granada.

Photographic evidence inc. make and model and DVLA is def. the way to go.

[gray1720]

I recall reading about a transport museum that received a ticket for their Scammel Mechanical Horse, which had been Gatsoed doing 100+ on the M2.

One of their staff was an ex-policeman who requested a photo. It turned out to be a Belgian motorcyclist late for their ferry. As the chap said, (a) we had security camera footage of it tucked up in its shed and (b) it wouldn't have reached that speed if you'd pushed it off a cliff!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scammell_Mechanical_Horse

[mick]

It's me!!!

When the time given was 01:00 on Saturday, I stupidly didn't realise that in my dumb way that's actually Friday night!! Of course it's not. If I park at 11:59pm on Friday night and the restriction starts at midnight then, of course, 00:01 is Saturday.

Then, having explored, I realise that the place given is a very large retail area car park and there are lots of signs with restrictions, including "no overnight parking".

I was there as accused (now I've understood the workings of the clock). I had used a McDonald's 24/7 drive through to get a drink, and the exit is through the car park. I stopped (parked) for 9 minutes watching a rather excellent fox quartering the car park. At the time, I had no idea that I was in breach of any conditions.

I still will appeal though. At the entrance to the car park the sign says that there are conditions but doesn't say what they are. That's the only sign readable from inside the car - it's a difficult entrance, and it would be very dangerous to stop to read a sign - so putting a simple one makes sense.
Once inside the car park it's true that there are lots of signs BUT it's impossible to read them unless one gets out of the car - the words are too small. That's especially true at night. Given that I couldn't read the signs and, even if I had been so inclined, I wouldn't have left the car
because I was fox watching, I hope that they will be lenient.



Mick

[mick]

Here's the 'conditions sign - couldn't make it go into the last post. Sorry

Bear in mind that these are taken in bright light so legibiltiy would be even worse at night.

Mick

[MJB]

I wish you the best of luck with your appeal, but if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath. I would imagine there is a specified size and font style for T&Cs signs and they've probably encountered the "I couldn't read the sign" defence thousands of times. Your best defence will probably be best centred on the fact you were just parked for a few minutes.

[zx9]

It is good to know that it was you and not a clone of your vehicle that was in the car park, that is one less thing to be worried about.
IIRC the legally tested definition of parking is that you left the vehicle, it may be worth having a look at www.youtube.com/@blackbeltbarrister who has covered similar on a number of occasions.

[mick]

Now my old man's confusion has cleared, I remember.

I was out late and called at a 24/7 McDonald's drive through and bought coffee. The way out is through 'their' car park. On the way out I saw a rather fine fox and stopped to watch him. I watched for 9 minutes according to their PCN!

As I said, one can't read the sign without leaving the car and I didn't leave the car because of the fox.

Banged to rights??

Mick

[Ivor E Tower]

Was the sign illuminated? How easy was it to see and would you have needed a torch to see it? Not reasonable to expect everyone out at night to be carrying a workimg torch IMHO.
Also if you had been to a drive-through, is it not reasonable to expect that you may wish to park somewhere very close by to consume the take-away rather than wait until you got home, by which time it may have been cold?

[MJB]

Apr 28, 2024 14:16:25 GMT Ivor E Tower said:

Was the sign illuminated? How easy was it to see and would you have needed a torch to see it? Not reasonable to expect everyone out at night to be carrying a workimg torch IMHO.
Also if you had been to a drive-through, is it not reasonable to expect that you may wish to park somewhere very close by to consume the take-away rather than wait until you got home, by which time it may have been cold?

Playing devil's advocate for a moment in my experience retail parks signage is incredibly clear and frequently repeated and the onus is on the person parking that they are entitled to park there. I'd also suggest that a condition of the McDonald's licence to operate 24 hours a day probably includes a restriction on parking due to antisocialbehaviour. I know that's the case locally in order to prevent 'boy racers' gathering and being a nuisance to nearby residents.

I have successfully challenged a parking ticket (Clarks Village) when I inadvertently entered the wrong car park code when paying by app, but their records showed I had paid for parking, but entered the code for the adjacent car park.

[mick]

To answer a few questions.
1. McDonalds have their own, very limited, parking but by the time you reach the drive through window you have passed it all.
2. Having visited McD the ONLY way back to the road is via the 'private' car park.
3. There are loads of signs with the conditions. Can't argue with that but every one of them is at least 10 feet above the ground and only illuminated by ambient light whether that be daylight or the general car park illumination.
4. The type face for the relevant conditions is, I guess, 16 or less (from word!) and I can't read that from my car under any circumstances.
5. As was "fox watching" I wasn't intending to leave my car at all. In fact I wasn't intending to stop at all.

I agree that an appeal is a long shot but nothing to lose by giving it a go.

Mick

[JohnY]

There might be a difference between 'No waiting' and 'No parking' and that difference might be whether you left the car or not.
Its a bit of a long shot.