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Post by dreampolice on Dec 21, 2022 19:31:03 GMT
And a question for zou We have just been watching Tokyo Vice in which a westerner who can speak and write Japanese sat an exam and it made me think. In English (unless it was an English test) I could make several spelling mistakes were it would be obvious what I meant, or may be even using the wrong word, for instance, "it was a waist of time" and the reader would no fully what I meant. As Japanese (and other languages) are cymbol based, if I was to make spelling mistakes, (assuming writing a symbol incorrectly) is it still the same, where the reader would know or figure what I meant, or is it a lot more complicated then that? |
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Post by zou on Dec 21, 2022 19:55:12 GMT
It's complicated. I don't know the specifics of the proficiency tests but they are likely very strict. If you used the wrong kanji you would almost certainly be marked down as that's (I think) the point of the test. If writing in hiragana so long as the phonetic is correct nobody would care, but the meaning could easily become lost.
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Post by zou on Dec 21, 2022 19:55:44 GMT
And lol at your deliberate use of cymbal!
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Post by gray1720 on Dec 21, 2022 20:01:29 GMT
As a monoglot westerner, the idea of a language (Chinese in particular) where the intonation can completely change the meaning of the words frankly scares the flip out of me.
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Post by zou on Dec 21, 2022 20:18:22 GMT
As a monoglot westerner, the idea of a language (Chinese in particular) where the intonation can completely change the meaning of the words frankly scares the flip out of me. I seem to recall reading that the sounds for fox and mother in law are the same, but intonation different. Tread carefully! Having said that, consider how tone changes English. Simple thing like "what did you do?" can have quite different implications depending which word is stressed. |
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Post by zou on Dec 21, 2022 20:26:04 GMT
Oh, and on the subject of kanji, not only should they look correct, they need to be written in the correct stroke order. E.g. ε (ten) must be written with horizontal stroke first, vertical second.
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Post by peterob on Dec 21, 2022 20:33:30 GMT
As a monoglot westerner, the idea of a language (Chinese in particular) where the intonation can completely change the meaning of the words frankly scares the flip out of me. Nah, just pretend youβre from Bes Pelargic. |
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Post by dreampolice on Dec 21, 2022 20:36:36 GMT
It's complicated. I don't know the specifics of the proficiency tests but they are likely very strict. If you used the wrong kanji you would almost certainly be marked down as that's (I think) the point of the test. If writing in hiragana so long as the phonetic is correct nobody would care, but the meaning could easily become lost. Ok thanks, now need to google Kanji and hiragana. As for the symbol spelling mistake, there were several others too, lol. |
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Post by steveandthedogs on Dec 21, 2022 20:37:13 GMT
As a monoglot westerner, the idea of a language (Chinese in particular) where the intonation can completely change the meaning of the words frankly scares the flip out of me. Read "Interesting Times" lately?
S
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Post by zou on Dec 21, 2022 20:41:43 GMT
It's complicated. I don't know the specifics of the proficiency tests but they are likely very strict. If you used the wrong kanji you would almost certainly be marked down as that's (I think) the point of the test. If writing in hiragana so long as the phonetic is correct nobody would care, but the meaning could easily become lost. Ok, now need to google Kanji and hiragana. As for the symbol spelling mistake, there were several others too, lol. Kanji is the name for the characters carrying meaning, whereas hiragana are the phonetic characters for words of Japanese origin. There are also katakana, phonetic characters for words of foreign origin, and romaji, using the roman alphabet. e.g. ζΌ’ε (kanji for the word kanji) can be expressed as γγγ in hiragana. Or a different example, γγΌγ¬γΌ (burger) in the phonetic katakana, or ba-ga- in romaji. Simples! |
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Post by dreampolice on Dec 21, 2022 20:44:28 GMT
Ok, now need to google Kanji and hiragana. As for the symbol spelling mistake, there were several others too, lol. Kanji is the name for the characters carrying meaning, whereas hiragana are the phonetic characters for words of Japanese origin. There are also katakana, phonetic characters for words of foreign origin, and romaji, using the roman alphabet. e.g. ζΌ’ε (kanji for the word kanji) can be expressed as γγγ in hiragana. Or a different example, γγΌγ¬γΌ (burger) in the phonetic katakana, or ba-ga- in romaji. Simples! Think I'll stick to English! |
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Post by zou on Dec 21, 2022 20:49:47 GMT
Kanji is the name for the characters carrying meaning, whereas hiragana are the phonetic characters for words of Japanese origin. There are also katakana, phonetic characters for words of foreign origin, and romaji, using the roman alphabet. e.g. ζΌ’ε (kanji for the word kanji) can be expressed as γγγ in hiragana. Or a different example, γγΌγ¬γΌ (burger) in the phonetic katakana, or ba-ga- in romaji. Simples! Think I'll stick to English classes! FTFY.  |
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Post by gray1720 on Dec 21, 2022 20:59:01 GMT
As a monoglot westerner, the idea of a language (Chinese in particular) where the intonation can completely change the meaning of the words frankly scares the flip out of me. Read "Interesting Times" lately?
S
Obviously not recently enough (I note that this is not the only refence on this thread). It's the thought of thinking you are saying "Hello, isn't it a lovely day", when actually what comes out is "Hey, is your mother still hanging round the docks waiting for sailors?" I exaggerate, but you take my point. |
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Post by MJB on Dec 21, 2022 22:15:52 GMT
Is Japanese like Korean and you use formal or informal depending on whether the person you are talking to is older or younger than you?
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Post by zou on Dec 21, 2022 22:19:29 GMT
Is Japanese like Korean and you use formal or informal depending on whether the person you are talking to is older or younger than you? Kind of. There are several levels of formality, it was quite disconcerting to hear my wife use the more formal language the first time on the phone to a government office. It may be useful in some situations but generally speaking so long as you aren't using slang or really casual language you'll be ok. I have to be reminded to up it a notch when talking to strangers. With the family it's ok. |
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