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Post by mick on Sept 13, 2023 11:42:06 GMT
Kath said, " If the subject of your appreciation is made to feel uncomfortable I'd say you (general you, not specific you) are straying into oggling territory."
I wish that I had expressed myself as clearly. There can be no argument with that point of view.
However, as a man, I now feel that I can't be seen 'looking' at any woman because I have no idea where her 'discomfort threshold' is.
Mick
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Post by kate on Sept 13, 2023 16:40:58 GMT
Kath said, " If the subject of your appreciation is made to feel uncomfortable I'd say you (general you, not specific you) are straying into oggling territory." I wish that I had expressed myself as clearly. There can be no argument with that point of view. However, as a man, I now feel that I can't be seen 'looking' at any woman because I have no idea where her 'discomfort threshold' is. Mick It is a quagmire. The key point, as far as I'm concerned, is that the women who complain are the ones who don't like you. As I've said before, some things are acceptable from one man and not from another. |
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Post by geoffr on Sept 13, 2023 17:36:35 GMT
Treating people with respect is entirely appropriate but, what some people expect goes beyond “respect” to subservience.
Some people dress to attract without realising that their attire will attract both welcome and unwelcome attention. Regrettably the only person who knows where the line between welcome and unwelcome falls is the one attracting attention.
Wearing dark glasses indoors tends to attract the wrong kind of attention.
There’s no easy answer, perhaps that’s why so many people wander around looking at their phones.
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Post by Kath on Sept 13, 2023 18:07:32 GMT
Kath said, " If the subject of your appreciation is made to feel uncomfortable I'd say you (general you, not specific you) are straying into oggling territory." I wish that I had expressed myself as clearly. There can be no argument with that point of view. However, as a man, I now feel that I can't be seen 'looking' at any woman because I have no idea where her 'discomfort threshold' is. Mick So don't look at her any more or less than you'd look at a man. I don't think anyone wants a society where we can't even look at each other. Unless it's run by the likes of the Taliban. But I'd be willing to bet that few men spend much time worrying about how they're looking at other blokes. I mean, maybe if the other blokes are dolled up with knuckledusters and switchblades with angry expressions on their faces, in which case I can understand why you might think twice about staring. Seriously though - a woman has a nice face, nice physique and is dressing to show that off to some extent...look, think to yourself 'that's nice' and move on. Don't keep looking. Don't stare. Don't drool. Don't move closer for a better angle. I hope you realise I'm not having a go at you in particular. I am past the age of attracting much unwanted attention these days (thank goodness) but there are still men who can't seem to speak to my face and spend an entire conversation basically addressing my chest. They're usually pretty short conversations and not often repeated because I don't much like that behaviour and don't encourage it or revisit for seconds. |
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Post by dreampolice on Sept 13, 2023 18:37:26 GMT
If the standard of dress is less than I expect, never mind, but having said that my pet peeve is concerning the female guests. Unfortunately some of the outfits worn leave very little to the imagination, and I respect their right to wear what they want, when they want and how they want, I feel that they haven't made the right choice if they're having to pull the outfit down because it shows their bottom or up because it's showing their bosom. Probably get shouted at for this but here goes!
If a person wears a revealing outfit they have no right to complain if other people look at them. Note the word person - I see some youths in hot weather displaying lots of chest and so on. I'm sure that girls look at them.
The above does NOT imply that a person's dress gives others the right to be suggestive, rude, intimidating or anything else.
It's inevitable that folk find (some of) the opposite sex attractive, and it's hard to comprehend the denial of the mode of dress being deliberate to increase that attraction. In part at least. Choice of dress has many components.
At my age I can appreciate beauty - but that's it. Appreciate beauty. I can look at a flower but have no desire to rip it out of the ground. I can admire a picture but I don't want to tear it off the wall. Yes, I can admire a pretty girl and think isn't she lucky to look so good. I have no desire whatever to damage her, insult her or harm her in any way. The assumption that a man admiring a woman is wrong and to assume (as has been done in this thread) that such admiration comes from a 'dirty old man' is especially, pathetically, simplistic and juvenile. I should also say that I can admire the physique or looks of a man as well - but I'm still hetero - equally I wouldn't dream of harming him.
Sorry that this is a bit incoherent. Have other things on my mind.
Mick
I have spoken with my wife many times about this. Many women (and girls) will happily say that another female looks pretty, has lovely hair, wears lovely clothes, smells nice or whatever without a second thought that someone may think that she is gay. My wife often says that another woman is pretty be it a TV person or a member of the public. Most men however would rarely, I believe, ever pass a comment about another man in the same way, and certainly not without ever thinking that their sexuality is being questioned because of that comment. |
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Post by JohnY on Sept 13, 2023 19:04:40 GMT
When I was an infant school boy I went to church with my parents. In retrospect, I see that we went to church in order to get me into a good C of E junior school. At secondary school we went to school chapel on a Sunday morning; that was an opportunity for Mum to wear her best hat and say good morning to the head master. Throughout those years I also attended weddings in C of E churches and Methodist chapels. The C of E did things properly with appropriate liturgy. The Methodists I thought were a bit weak on liturgy but you got a good loud sing. Singing is better than chanting.
Nowadays I rarely go to weddings and baptisms but often to funerals. Usually the service does not take place in church but a soulless crematorium multifaith anteroom to the furnace.
A year or so ago we did have a proper funeral. A cousin died and we had a church service followed by a proper burial. Sons an sons in law actually carried the coffin. Thanks to God they didn't drop it. I guess that the undertakers had arranged a dry run. It was a proper send off and quite moving.
Also a couple of years ago an older friend, who had taught me how to lay a hedge, died. His family had arranged a woodland funeral. It was very appropriate and moving. The family also arranged a celebration of his life held in the function/education room of our local country park and all the staff and friends of he park were invited as well as family. 'Twas a good do. Those of us from near villages even had a couple of minibuses laid on so we could enjoy cider and mead.
Funerals can be every bit as good as weddings.
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Post by willien on Sept 13, 2023 20:00:11 GMT
I quite enjoyed my wedding...
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Post by mick on Sept 14, 2023 7:52:49 GMT
Kath said, " If the subject of your appreciation is made to feel uncomfortable I'd say you (general you, not specific you) are straying into oggling territory." I wish that I had expressed myself as clearly. There can be no argument with that point of view. However, as a man, I now feel that I can't be seen 'looking' at any woman because I have no idea where her 'discomfort threshold' is. Mick It is a quagmire. The key point, as far as I'm concerned, is that the women who complain are the ones who don't like you. As I've said before, some things are acceptable from one man and not from another. Slightly changing tack. I've been walking grandsons to school for 10 years or more now. I've noticed that the women at the school gate treat me much 'better' than they do the much younger fathers who take their kids. The ladies are much more friendly to me. I've always assumed that it was my age - I'm no longer any sort of threat or predator!
There's one lady in particular who lives close by who jokes that I need to be 'seen home safely' and we walk together. I will add that she has the voice of an angel and so I enjoy listening to her. Although it's irrelevant I'll add that she also has a very pretty face and looking at her face is allowed!!!
Mick
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Post by lesleysm2 on Sept 14, 2023 22:03:36 GMT
If there weren't any tax breaks for being married, we wouldn't have done it. Reminds me of a friend of mine Hilary, she and her partner Ashley had lived together for 20 or so years and reaching the age of 55 both with really good NHS pensions (Both senior managers) decided to sell their flat and move to Turkey where they could live very well and buy a property (They've since brought one in Greece) Then they found out under Turkish law if they weren't married it would cause all sort of problems if one of them died first but if they were married then the surviving spouse would get everything and it was a damn sight cheaper to get married than to make a will in Turkey They did the classic booked a registry office, asked two complete strangers from the street to act as witnesses and afterwards took the two strangers to the pub for a meal and didn't tell their families until about 3 months later they'd gone and got married But from my point of view it would have been a lot easier if we were married before Dave died as you all know I had a lot of struggles for things like even keeping the flat .. As a friend of mine said "FFS if you'd got married 38 years ago, had a massive fight at the reception and stormed out never spoken to each other again you's have more rights than you do now" |
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