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Post by kate on Aug 12, 2023 8:00:28 GMT
What do you think of the necessity for secrecy re the names of police officers?
I accept some might be undercover or doing secret work, but the furore about the release of c.10,000 names of NI police members (amazed me that figure), is something I find somewhat counterproductive. I'm trying to think of other services (public servants) who can hide their names from the public.
Why should the police be able to do this? It is their job to protect us the public and apprehend any wrongdoers. Why should they feel they need the protection of anonymity while carrying out this public service? Is it right? I don't think so.
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Post by zou on Aug 12, 2023 8:09:52 GMT
What do you think of the necessity for secrecy re the names of police officers? I accept some might be undercover or doing secret work, but the furore about the release of c.10,000 names of NI police members (amazed me that figure), is something I find somewhat counterproductive. I'm trying to think of other services (public servants) who can hide their names from the public. Why should the police be able to do this? It is their job to protect us the public and apprehend any wrongdoers. Why should they feel they need the protection of anonymity while carrying out this public service? Is it right? I don't think so. Well that's one take. But given the 'highly politicised' (speaking euphemistically) history of policing in NI and the fact that this lists civilian staff too, and I think it's pretty clear why it's worrying for the staff affected and their families. |
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Post by kate on Aug 12, 2023 9:11:56 GMT
I have so many philosophical and moral thoughts about this it's hard for me to acceppt.
If you make something a 'secret society or group' you give them the freedom to act with impunity. You actually make them a target.
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Post by spinno on Aug 12, 2023 9:17:07 GMT
If I were potentially a target for "nut job terrorists" even by just being an office cleaner, I would expect a reasonable employer to protect me as much as possible.
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Post by steveandthedogs on Aug 12, 2023 10:04:44 GMT
What do you think of the necessity for secrecy re the names of police officers? I accept some might be undercover or doing secret work, but the furore about the release of c.10,000 names of NI police members (amazed me that figure), is something I find somewhat counterproductive. I'm trying to think of other services (public servants) who can hide their names from the public. Why should the police be able to do this? It is their job to protect us the public and apprehend any wrongdoers. Why should they feel they need the protection of anonymity while carrying out this public service? Is it right? I don't think so. Psychiatric nurses and other staff, esp in secure units.
Why do you think I started off as steveandthedogs and not Steve Ashton?
I knew two or three staff who were badly beaten when they met ex/patients in the street.
S
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Post by dreampolice on Aug 12, 2023 10:16:42 GMT
I'd be very concerned. One of my old colleagues had to keep a radio and had panic alarms fitted at his home, as a notorious criminal group, found the officers address and at times parked up outside his place to intimidate him.
There were other incidences were officers had been targeted at their homes. This was in England, where the risk would be considerably less than in NI.
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Post by spinno on Aug 12, 2023 10:40:39 GMT
John and Joan Stirland
Killed at the behest of a criminal in revenge for her son being involved with the death of a family member.
Corrupt police officers were involved.
As I'm on the kindle I cannot link
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Post by dreampolice on Aug 12, 2023 11:10:56 GMT
John and Joan Stirland Killed at the behest of a criminal in revenge for her son being involved with the death of a family member. Corrupt police officers were involved. As I'm on the kindle I cannot link Can't trust any bugger. There have been a few (mainly civilian though I think) within my old force that had gang affiliations and were found to be accessing details on the computers. I am on the restricted electoral role so my details aren't as easily accessible. Always have been Ex Directory when we had a landline and as far as I am aware my mobile phone number isn't listed anywhere together with my name and address (that is readily accessible anyway). At my daughters inquest the coroner agreed that I didn't have to give my profession or my home address in open court, yet the following day I received 2 phone calls to my mobile from journalists wanting my story for some shitty magazine. A journalist came to my house. From a name and a rough idea of location, we are all findable and at that time I didn't use social media at all to help them. I am sure the terrorist organisations with the right contacts wherever, could soon attach addresses to the names found. |
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Post by mick on Aug 12, 2023 11:32:04 GMT
Some random thoughts:
1. No employer publishes the names and addresses of their employees.
2. In the UK I think that it is now the norm for a civil servant to give their first name but refuse to divulge their second.
3. Modern society now holds some pretty evil people. Just an impression but many more, it seems, than when I was young.
4. The advent of the internet helps these evil people.
5. I know a person who used to be involved, as a civilian, with the police. Extraordinary measures were taken to protect identity.I understood why.
On balance, I'm with those who regret and worry about such publication.
Mick
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Post by kate on Aug 12, 2023 13:27:04 GMT
In my simplistic view, I see organisations such as the Government and the Police suffer the consequences of secrecy.
For me, secrecy breeds distrust in those they want to control. The more secret, the worse the antipathy towards those bodies leads to groups within society reacting sometimes in the form of aggression. It's like an equal and opposite force. The more secrecy becomes entrenched in bodies with authority over the rest of us, the more democracy and accountability gets eaten away. Society becomes more divisive and less co-operative or less likely to accept rule from those organisations.
I know probably most of you will think that's naive and simplistic, but I do feel that secrecy allied to big brother measures are damaging to the well being of all of us.
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Post by willien on Aug 12, 2023 13:45:21 GMT
My view is a police officer needs to be identifiable so a uniformed officers shoulder number badges should not be covered up and any polis who does so is just a thug with a stick. I do not however need to know either the officers name or address.
I concede there may be situations where even an officers number should be concealed but that should not be the decision of individual officers ans such officers superiors should be fully liable for such officers actions.
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Post by dreampolice on Aug 12, 2023 15:13:16 GMT
Back in the early 90's TVP who I was with at the time brought in name plates for our jackets/jumpers. At the time I was on a plain clothes team so exempt from wearing them. The force sent out forms that we still had to fill in showing what we wanted as a first name (shortened names etc). A lad we worked with had the surname Goode. He was away on leave so we filled in his form. When his badge arrived he was surprised to see it as Eezer Goode (it was at the time when the Shamen had their song out)
We didn't expect that to get through!
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Post by lesleysm2 on Aug 12, 2023 22:12:53 GMT
he was surprised to see it as Eezer Goode (it was at the time when the Shamen had their song out) As a great philosopher once said "Naughty, naughty, very naughty" |
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Post by Fenris on Aug 14, 2023 15:50:08 GMT
What do you think of the necessity for secrecy re the names of police officers? I accept some might be undercover or doing secret work, but the furore about the release of c.10,000 names of NI police members (amazed me that figure), is something I find somewhat counterproductive. I'm trying to think of other services (public servants) who can hide their names from the public. Why should the police be able to do this? It is their job to protect us the public and apprehend any wrongdoers. Why should they feel they need the protection of anonymity while carrying out this public service? Is it right? I don't think so. It isn't about undercover work, or trying to hide themselves of their actions from the eye of the public. Northern Ireland may be a safer place nowadays, but there is still a percentage of people who want to disable the Northern Ireland peace agreements. These people don't stop at putting up posters or shouting at Speaker's Corner, they go around threatening, injuring and/or killing people who they feel stand in their way. The NI Police Force and people (i.e., civilians) who work for them are targets for these people and now that there has been a list of their names and addresses published, it puts them at an even greater risk. Imagine how you'd feel if you worked for someone that a group of people hated and this made you unsafe. Then this group got your name and address... |
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Post by kate on Aug 14, 2023 16:35:59 GMT
There is one obvious way to stop it. Pull out of NI. It should never have been separated.
I can't help but see groups of people will always be targets for those not in the group or state or nation. Such is our pathetic world.
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