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Post by peterob on Aug 1, 2023 15:27:49 GMT
Make public transport free to travellers. Use taxes to encourage provision of multiple public transport options. I lived for a few year in Sheffield in the 1970s, when bus fares there were subsidised from rates income (local property taxes). I worked in a city centre office in which some senior managers made a point of commuting by bus from suburbs 6 or 7 miles away 'because we've already paid for it'. However, the bus service was very good, and buses ran frequently at busy times so a wait of more than 10 minutes was rare when commuting. However, I suspect that today many selfish people who can afford the local taxes and the cost of using a big car for commuting will choose the car as long as they are allowed the choice, especially in London. The public transport provision is essential. I lived 5 years in Brussels and there was no need for a car at all. Public transport was excellent and I could ride one ticket for an hour across all services. So hop a tram, bus, or metro, then shop and reverse the journey was a good challenge. As long as I stamped the ticket within the hour on the last service that was a cost of about a pound. The other thing that made it possible was local shops. I could walk to (either of two) supermarkets in less than 5 minutes. They were not "super stores" but they were bigger than the "express" stores in the UK. This made it possible to shop on demand for food and hence there was no need to lug anything heavy about. The only headache with public transport was learning the routes because there were multiple ways of achieving each journey. |
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Post by Chester PB on Aug 1, 2023 15:41:54 GMT
I lived for a few year in Sheffield in the 1970s, when bus fares there were subsidised from rates income (local property taxes). I worked in a city centre office in which some senior managers made a point of commuting by bus from suburbs 6 or 7 miles away 'because we've already paid for it'. However, the bus service was very good, and buses ran frequently at busy times so a wait of more than 10 minutes was rare when commuting. However, I suspect that today many selfish people who can afford the local taxes and the cost of using a big car for commuting will choose the car as long as they are allowed the choice, especially in London. The public transport provision is essential. I lived 5 years in Brussels and there was no need for a car at all. Public transport was excellent and I could ride one ticket for an hour across all services. So hop a tram, bus, or metro, then shop and reverse the journey was a good challenge. As long as I stamped the ticket within the hour on the last service that was a cost of about a pound. The other thing that made it possible was local shops. I could walk to (either of two) supermarkets in less than 5 minutes. They were not "super stores" but they were bigger than the "express" stores in the UK. This made it possible to shop on demand for food and hence there was no need to lug anything heavy about. The only headache with public transport was learning the routes because there were multiple ways of achieving each journey. In 2009 my wife and I had a week in Padua, and the only hotel available was a modern 'tower block' in the suburbs. However, we could buy public transport 'rover' tickets at the hotel that were valid for a day, and the bus stopped very near the hotel and ran every 10 minutes even at 'non commuting' times. Since we had been informed about this by the hotel when we made the booking, we managed without a hire car that week which helped us afford some wonderful restaurant meals. |
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Post by kate on Aug 1, 2023 16:10:46 GMT
Make public transport free to travellers. Use taxes to encourage provision of multiple public transport options. I lived for a few year in Sheffield in the 1970s, when bus fares there were subsidised from rates income (local property taxes). I worked in a city centre office in which some senior managers made a point of commuting by bus from suburbs 6 or 7 miles away 'because we've already paid for it'. However, the bus service was very good, and buses ran frequently at busy times so a wait of more than 10 minutes was rare when commuting. However, I suspect that today many selfish people who can afford the local taxes and the cost of using a big car for commuting will choose the car as long as they are allowed the choice, especially in London. I actually would dispute the especially in London bit. If I could have avoided driving in my day, I would have. I knew many people who didn't drive and whose journeys were convenient using the tube. My sister uses two buses these days and although they can be a bit random, that's how she travels around, tube or bus. |
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Post by andy on Aug 1, 2023 16:44:51 GMT
The only headache with public transport was learning the routes because there were multiple ways of achieving each journey. The Internet seems to know all that these days. Destination by public transport from origin seems to work and results in a list of options. Currently trying to persuade Jasmine to apply for jobs that are easy to get to but I'm not winning. |
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Post by geoffr on Aug 1, 2023 21:22:37 GMT
I lived for a few year in Sheffield in the 1970s, when bus fares there were subsidised from rates income (local property taxes). I worked in a city centre office in which some senior managers made a point of commuting by bus from suburbs 6 or 7 miles away 'because we've already paid for it'. However, the bus service was very good, and buses ran frequently at busy times so a wait of more than 10 minutes was rare when commuting. However, I suspect that today many selfish people who can afford the local taxes and the cost of using a big car for commuting will choose the car as long as they are allowed the choice, especially in London. I actually would dispute the especially in London bit. If I could have avoided driving in my day, I would have. I knew many people who didn't drive and whose journeys were convenient using the tube. My sister uses two buses these days and although they can be a bit random, that's how she travels around, tube or bus. Considering that it is the UK’s busiest airport, Heathrow is not especially well served with public transport except from London. The Elizabeth line should help from Reading but from many other directions it isn’t good. Try to travel between midnight and 5:00 and it is no fun at all, hence night shift and late shift staff had no option but to drive. Early shift was just about possible if the start time was around 7:00, my shifts started at 6:30. I have driven into central London but only because the event we were attending didn’t allow us to use public transport, it finished too late. Better now. |
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Post by mick on Aug 2, 2023 8:58:44 GMT
I know a person who insists on owning a 3litre 4x4 because ,"his folks live in the country".
He lives in Wimbledon, near the tennis place, and his "folks" live about a 10 minute walk from a station served by trains every 15 minutes from a London terminus. The train journey is about 30 minutes on most trains and most 45 on a "stopper". Even on Sunday the frequency is no worse than 30 minutes. I know it well - it was my commuting route.
I accept that him having a car is useful because he has a family and often has to carry quite a lot when he visits his parents. However, a 3litre 4x4??? A small electric car would do the job very nicely.
Mick
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Post by spinno on Aug 2, 2023 9:42:33 GMT
I know a person who insists on owning a 3litre 4x4 because ,"his folks live in the country". He lives in Wimbledon, near the tennis place, and his "folks" live about a 10 minute walk from a station served by trains every 15 minutes from a London terminus. The train journey is about 30 minutes on most trains and most 45 on a "stopper". Even on Sunday the frequency is no worse than 30 minutes. I know it well - it was my commuting route. I accept that him having a car is useful because he has a family and often has to carry quite a lot when he visits his parents. However, a 3litre 4x4??? A small electric car would do the job very nicely. Mick He is entitled and don't let us forget that. |
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Post by geoffr on Aug 2, 2023 20:54:15 GMT
I know a person who insists on owning a 3litre 4x4 because ,"his folks live in the country". He lives in Wimbledon, near the tennis place, and his "folks" live about a 10 minute walk from a station served by trains every 15 minutes from a London terminus. The train journey is about 30 minutes on most trains and most 45 on a "stopper". Even on Sunday the frequency is no worse than 30 minutes. I know it well - it was my commuting route. I accept that him having a car is useful because he has a family and often has to carry quite a lot when he visits his parents. However, a 3litre 4x4??? A small electric car would do the job very nicely. Mick When I had my Jaguar I learned that the 3.0 V6 was actually more economical to run than my 2.0 4 cylinder. The 2.3 Saab 9-5 Aero (250 BHP) was definitely more economical than the lower powered Vector (185 BHP). A “small” electrical car would almost certainly not do the job nicely, it might be suitable for the specific journey but one normally buys a car for “any” journey. |
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Post by mick on Aug 3, 2023 11:58:44 GMT
When I had my Jaguar I learned that the 3.0 V6 was actually more economical to run than my 2.0 4 cylinder. The 2.3 Saab 9-5 Aero (250 BHP) was definitely more economical than the lower powered Vector (185 BHP). A “small” electrical car would almost certainly not do the job nicely, it might be suitable for the specific journey but one normally buys a car for “any” journey. When I had my Jaguar I could get about 28mpg if I drove it VERY gently. I'm talking about a 250 mile M'way journey with a few miles urban roads at either end. My current car, same engine size as the Jag - but diesel, will give me 60mpg (I'm taking about gentle driving).
Mick
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Post by geoffr on Aug 3, 2023 13:01:16 GMT
When I had my Jaguar I learned that the 3.0 V6 was actually more economical to run than my 2.0 4 cylinder. The 2.3 Saab 9-5 Aero (250 BHP) was definitely more economical than the lower powered Vector (185 BHP). A “small” electrical car would almost certainly not do the job nicely, it might be suitable for the specific journey but one normally buys a car for “any” journey. When I had my Jaguar I could get about 28mpg if I drove it VERY gently. I'm talking about a 250 mile M'way journey with a few miles urban roads at either end. My current car, same engine size as the Jag - but diesel, will give me 60mpg (I'm taking about gentle driving).
Mick
My comments refer to Diesel Jags but petrol Saabs. I wouldn’t have another Diesel |
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Post by petrochemist on Aug 3, 2023 13:32:22 GMT
I wouldn’t have another Diesel Why not? My 308 diesel has averaged over 60mpg throughout the last year, no real issues with reliability with it or the Focus diesel I drove for at least 7 years before then (getting similar economy for everyday driving and managing 80mph on a long trip on at least one occasion). I get to drive petrol hire cars for work fairly regularly & they don't perform significantly better, just use more fuel. |
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Post by nickr on Aug 3, 2023 15:15:29 GMT
I wouldn’t have another Diesel Why not? My 308 diesel has averaged over 60mpg throughout the last year, no real issues with reliability with it or the Focus diesel I drove for at least 7 years before then (getting similar economy for everyday driving and managing 80mph on a long trip on at least one occasion). I get to drive petrol hire cars for work fairly regularly & they don't perform significantly better, just use more fuel. My wife changed her company car earlier this year. Last car was a Peugeot 3008 with a 1.2 turbo petrol engine, and 8 speed auto box. It averaged a miserable 34 MPG across the 4 years she had it. New car is a Citroën C5 Aircross - same platform. It has a 1.5 turbo diesel, and the same gearbox as the Pug. Power output is I think identical, but obviously torque is way up on the diesel. The petrol engine sounds loads better. The diesel pulls loads better. And since she got it back in March, it's averaging 50 mpg. Really is a no-brainer. |
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Post by willien on Aug 3, 2023 16:47:55 GMT
Drove my first diesel at some point before 2010.
A courtesy Astra 2L TDCI Sri when a parcel force truck ripped the rear bumper off and dented my parked Mondeo.
Absolutely loved the engine with its low down grunt - except for its habit in crawling commuter queus feeding on to the Edinburgh city by-pass at zero plus mph of suddenly racing and therfore precipitousley accelerating the car until you hit the clutch - also loved the gearbox (6 manual), suspension, brakes and steering. Hated absolutely everything else about it. It seemed like Vauxhaul had seriously engineered a car... then built it down to a (cheap) price.
After the Mondeo was becoming a liability I bought a 2 litre Yeti tdci in elegance spec with 6 speed manual. Absolutely loved it and kept it for 5 years.
Replaced it for some good reasons - wanted an automatic, wanted a bigger boot and the yeti was running out of road re Edinburghs LEZ - and a real reason I wanted, late in life, a luxury car which was not very old and did not have rusty bits falling off it on a regular basis.
Very happy with the BMW 520D touring, Msport, X Drive. Drivers seat is shite for anyone with lumber problems (aftermarket cushion solves), pissed off with the need to play mp3/4 from my phone via bluetooth to avoid the car either playing an album on repeat continuously ( or if you fiddle with it playing your entire collection of tracks randomly)- what tin eared eedjit thought that was acceptable - but have learned to live with that. Despite it's (not inconsiderable) extra weight it almost always gets better mileage than the yeti.
I did have a petrol Mki Golf 1.6 Gti. Nice car but it only "woke up" after you passed 80 mph and for moderate speed twisty roads the power delivery was a disaster, You were either treating it like a sports car (on a public road, which I did not even do in my young biking days) and screaming the engine in a low gear or it had bugger all poke in a "normal" gear.
I really like diesels ability to accelerate from low speed/low gears and their ability to cruise at low revs while accelerating on demand - given an excellent auto box.
Given my annual mileage then, as long as I do not commission an EV or hybrid, I think my adverse affect on the planet is pretty low for a car owner and would be whether I had a diesel or a petrol, and, I really like a good diesel.
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Post by daves on Aug 3, 2023 17:23:31 GMT
I only drove a Diesel car for a short time while my Rover 25 GTi was having its rear bumper replaced. A Ford Focus which I found to be a clattery gutless lump. I was very glad to get my Rover back.
I freely admit that my experience may not be typical.
My current car is a Honda Civic R.
I could say that I will never buy another Diesel but that's because my next car will likely be electric, and smaller than the Honda.
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Post by MJB on Aug 3, 2023 17:35:04 GMT
I wouldn't have a diesel car. I only do 4-5,000 miles a year on mostly rural roads or urban. Costing out things like servicing costs a small petrol hatchback is a no-brainer. If I do make a longer journey on motorways or dual carriageways my 1.4 petrol car will happily cruise along at 70mph and on a longer run will return 50mpg+.
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