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Post by lesleysm2 on Apr 8, 2023 22:59:17 GMT
David Draimen can really sing and this version Skelps S&G. I also love this |
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Post by Kath on Apr 9, 2023 9:28:28 GMT
Well, not really. I am allowed to point out mistakes and my role is to guide people to better performance with the application of study skills and reasonable adjustments or assistive technology as required. As I said in my other post it's really the ones who are 'at it' that are the most annoying. For some of my students, getting to their classes at all is a big achievement and I have had to amend my perception of what counts as 'a win' in a lot of cases. Yes, it would be great if I could tell you that all my students will be leaving college this year with HNCs or whatever and progressign on to work or university. But not all of them will. Some will have gained a bit of self confidence or picked up a skill they didn't have before. Some will go on to uni or work. Some may just be about ready to accept that they need more help. And I will feel quietly proud, in spite of the spelling/grammar, to have had a bit of hand in that. In the last few weeks I've had to make two safeguarding reports, set someone up with a disguised app that they can use to note instances of domestic violence to take to a custody hearing, listen to a compulsive liar telling me the tallest tales you've ever heard, hear someone tell me they are suicidal, report instances of self-harm, proofread essays on topics I know nothing about, sit in a disciplinary meeting where my student was the aggressor, congratulate a student who at the start of the year worried she was 'too thick' to do her course but has now been given an offer at Stirling University for a degree, make endless appointments for another student who just kept not turning up, try to keep a parent from completely taking over their adult child's life to the extent they wanted to sit in the classroom and show the progression board which bits of someone's essay were actually my work. It's exhausting! Hi Kath, normally my "gut" reaction to your initial post would be to condemn the ineptitude of your students, the academic system that has failed them, and probably "absent", "misguided" or even "failed" parenting. But I held my whist and read all of the posts. Now, I think I understand. Now I see an educator, part time (full time even) social worker, safe haven for vulnerable people, whom society has failed. And I think I can guess at your frustration, and even despair, against the relentless waves of problems, issues and difficulties coming at you. Yet you presist. You are one of the few in this self centred "modern" society, who care enough to make a difference. Someone who experiences and shares your student's pain, so you can ease it somewhat. Take the victories, whether the small wins or the (rare) big ones. And by all means, let go a little every now and then and have a good rant. When you can't bear the pressure, let off a little steam. It's better than leaving the kitchen - you are feeding souls! I could never do what you do, but I admire it very much. As an Aspie, I tend to float above most of the complexities of emotional life. Logic is so much easier. But what you do is so much more valuable. Thanks for sharing. Adrian Thank you Adrian. I think you've made me out to be much more of a paragon than is truly warranted but I appreciate the sentiment! It's true that sometimes I just need to vent a bit. My husband is a fixer and even when I preface a rant with 'You don't need to fix this I just need to let off steam' he will still offer solutions. A forum like this is a valuable tool because even if someone offers advice, it's much easier to ignore it when the adviser isn't sitting next to you! |
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Post by peterba on Apr 9, 2023 11:16:37 GMT
Which seems to be the approriate time to post this link. My thanks to Kate for putting it on facebook some time ago. Possibly PS's greatest song performed by a US heavy metal band called Disturbed. This is not a pisstake. David Draimen can really sing and this version Skelps S&G.
Excellent, Willie. A great cover, and a powerful video, too. Ultimately, I think I'd still choose the original as a Desert Island Disc  , but definitely well worth a listen - and easily the best cover that I've heard. Thanks for posting. |
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Post by Kellen on Apr 27, 2023 7:40:10 GMT
Before hiring someone I always require them to write a one-page essay. Knowing I will likely receive hundreds if not thousands of emails from an employee, the hand written essay shows me whether they can communicate effectively and spell correctly. Fairly shocking how many college graduates fail that simple filter, which in turn has left me questioning the efficacy of modern education.
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Post by mick on Apr 27, 2023 15:41:50 GMT
Before hiring someone I always require them to write a one-page essay. Knowing I will likely receive hundreds if not thousands of emails from an employee, the hand written essay shows me whether they can communicate effectively and spell correctly. Fairly shocking how many college graduates fail that simple filter, which in turn has left me questioning the efficacy of modern education. I have a theory. I can't point to any science but there is a lot of evidence to support one part of it.
My theory is that education is no less efficacious than it was. In many respects it's improved. What you are seeing is a different population of applicants.
In the old days - and before I go further, let no-one be under the misapprehension that I think that the old days were paradise, they certainly were not - there were natural filters in the education system. The 11+, GCE O and A levels, university (or other institution) entrance, gaining a degree (or other qualification). It was possible to fail at each one of those hurdles. These days students don't fail (unless they are really, really stupid) and about half of youngsters end with a degree (blame Blair).
It's why employers demand degrees for jobs that never used to require them.
That means that the population of applicants who consider themselves qualified for a particular post is much wider then it was and the standard ( of applicants) is, on average, lower. However the best are just as good, if not better, than they always were.
Just a theory!!
Mick
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Post by zou on Apr 27, 2023 19:05:46 GMT
I'd argue that trying to measure the worth of a degree by the language skills of the degree-holder is just bad science. That's just not a reliable metric for measuring academic 'success.' And let's not even get into the sample size from which this generalisation is drawn, eh!  |
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Post by mick on Apr 28, 2023 6:54:05 GMT
I'd argue that trying to measure the worth of a degree by the language skills of the degree-holder is just bad science. That's just not a reliable metric for measuring academic 'success.' And let's not even get into the sample size from which this generalisation is drawn, eh! I’m not at all sure that Kellen was trying to measure the worth of a degree. It was an attempt to measure written communication skills (because, it was said, the appointed person would be sending lots of emails).
On a vaguely related topic I'm reminded of the time, many years ago, when I ran a small lab the main function of which was measuring the breaking strain of steel wire. I always had trouble recruiting testers. There were three skills required. First use of a micrometer, second the ability to read a gauge and last the ability to legibly write a number into a box on a preprinted form. Like Kellen I made a brief test that comprised having the candidate copy a short list of numbers onto the preprinted form. I reckon that well over half failed that test. This was in Cardiff around the mid 1960's.
Mick
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Post by zou on Apr 28, 2023 7:14:11 GMT
I'd argue that trying to measure the worth of a degree by the language skills of the degree-holder is just bad science. That's just not a reliable metric for measuring academic 'success.' And let's not even get into the sample size from which this generalisation is drawn, eh! I’m not at all sure that Kellen was trying to measure the worth of a degree. It was an attempt to measure written communication skills (because, it was said, the appointed person would be sending lots of emails).
Mick
Which he then used to judge the worth of the education. Not the knowledge or skills gained, just a random written exercise. |
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Post by mick on Apr 28, 2023 7:22:32 GMT
I’m not at all sure that Kellen was trying to measure the worth of a degree. It was an attempt to measure written communication skills (because, it was said, the appointed person would be sending lots of emails).
Mick
Which he then used to judge the worth of the education. Not the knowledge or skills gained, just a random written exercise. I always assumed that Kellen was a she!!
Mick
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Post by Kath on Apr 28, 2023 13:19:12 GMT
I don't have a lot of time this morning as I'm supposed to be finishing off a few chores here and then heading for my weekend away with my weird internet friends but I can see this latest discussion from more than one side. On the one hand I am supporting students who would probably fail Kellen's essay test but who will, with my support, gain a college qualification that allows them to go on to get a degree. Most of the students I support have dyslexia to some extent or other, many have ADHD, several PTSD, others are autistic and several have some or all of these conditions. Their ability to write an essay without spellcheck and someone reminding them that sentences need to end occasionally, is not a reflection of other skills acheived. At the start of this year I had a student whose initial response to an essay question was to hand in a bullet pointed list of about five items in no logical order. Last week, her plan for how to structure her essay was at least twice as long as that first effort. She'd learned about structuring responses and in addition she has also learned how to reference sources, write in the third person, analyse and evaluate. She would not have done that without my help and I am afraid to say it but not all educational institutions offer the kind of support that we do. Heck not even all our own academic partners do and even within my own college I encounter attitudes that suggest we shouldn't have bothered. This student will always struggle with spelling but there are ways and means of checking and correcting spelling and I know this much - if I were to become ill in hospital I could not ask for a kinder or more thorough nurse than my student.
On the other hand I find it very annoying that I needed to have a degree for my job when I certainly could have done the job perfectly well without one and the rate of pay in exchange for four years of hard work (whch was utter joy, let's face it) is poor to say the least. I do feel that a degree is now often expected for the kinds of jobs that once would have only demanded a 'good level of education' in a lot of cases, and I would agree that it's because there are too many degrees and too many people able to access them. Take my nursing student for example. She's with us on a SWAP ACCESS course which means it's for people who have been out of education for at least three years and in reality is attracting primarily women who left school with no qualifications, became mothers early and now that their children are hitting school age are looking to improve their chances and go back to school. I think it's a brilliant initiative and I'm proud to say that with only one or two exceptions all our students since we began offering this course have gone on to university to do a nursing degree. Before this, my student would not have had the quaifications from school to be able to go on to do a degree. But also, she wouldn't have needed a degree. And there are a lot of people I've spoken to in the medical profession who think the degree does not prepare them well for being a nurse.
That said though, if I ruled the world, I wouldn't deny anyone the oppportunity to expand on their education. Whether it ends in employment or not it is good for us to be learning things. I wish there were more apprencticeships going round, meaningful, useful apprenticeships, and that education wasn't something that left graduates with debt to deal with for so long. I wish learning didn't have a bad name at school and that educatino generally wasn't so prescriptive. I personally think this last point is where we fall down the most. When my youngest was in her last year at school she was coming home with English literature essay questions that prescribed exactly what had to be included in each paragraph. Writing has moved so far away from being a form of self-expression and now sits firmly in the box-ticking camp instead. I'd have failed miserably I think.
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Post by mick on Apr 28, 2023 17:03:09 GMT
Kath,
I wish that I had written what you wrote! I couldn't agree with you more.
I don't know what sort of college you work in but it sounds quite like the FE college that I was involved with.
We typically had 15 to 20 thousand students of all abilities. We had Oxbridge candidates (not too many of those) down to people who struggled to write their own name but could do something else brilliantly. We had something like 600 FT teachers and loads of PT. We also had some as dedicated as you seem to be.
I absolutely loved my time there. For complex reasons I would sometimes get to know a student on admission and be in a position to monitor their progress through their course. I would see brutes of youths coming in and fear for the safety of the staff and I would watch those brutes (not all of them) turn into gentlemen. I loved it.
Power to your elbow.
Mick
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, but definitely well worth a listen - and easily the best cover that I've heard. Thanks for posting.
