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Post by andy on Apr 21, 2023 7:51:29 GMT
What a wonderful idea, shame it isn’t new! I remember we had such a thing in the early 1960s on Corona bottles, Coca Cola, Pepsi and of course milk bottles (not that one actually got money back for returning milk bottles). At the same time the UK had the world’s largest fleet of battery electric vehicles. Of course glass is relatively heavy so, unlikely plastic bottles, the cost of transporting them will be significant but no worse than taking them to the tip. Quite frankly the don’t understand why we ever went away from deposit on bottles. It was a system that worked but somebody obviously worked out the plastic bottles were cheaper to buy, transport and scrap than glass. You can’t use a broken plastic bottle as a weapon either, not that I recall it ever being offered as a reason. Some drinks companies used to use deposit bottles up here too. Barr's Irn Bru (and other sodas from them) were popular in glass bottles that IIRC had a 20p deposit on them when I was a kid. Maybe I've assumed wrong but I figured it was the drinks companies that decided to use deposit bottles rather than the government forcing it on them back then? |
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Post by nimbus on Apr 21, 2023 8:04:42 GMT
The deposit system worked in it's time. Will it work now? The theory is fine, as usual with this kind of thing, however retail has changed with much food and drink shopping being made at supermarkets where the practicalities of this really will cause problems. Those who discard items anywhere at will are not going to work on the "I'll get 20p if I take this back" principle, they will still do exactly the same as they care neither about the 20p or the environment around them. It does still work for the relatively small amount of milk which is doorstep delivered but I couldn't see a national scheme working now.
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Post by nickr on Apr 21, 2023 8:12:46 GMT
What a wonderful idea, shame it isn’t new! I remember we had such a thing in the early 1960s on Corona bottles, Coca Cola, Pepsi and of course milk bottles (not that one actually got money back for returning milk bottles). At the same time the UK had the world’s largest fleet of battery electric vehicles. Of course glass is relatively heavy so, unlikely plastic bottles, the cost of transporting them will be significant but no worse than taking them to the tip. Quite frankly the don’t understand why we ever went away from deposit on bottles. It was a system that worked but somebody obviously worked out the plastic bottles were cheaper to buy, transport and scrap than glass. You can’t use a broken plastic bottle as a weapon either, not that I recall it ever being offered as a reason. Some drinks companies used to use deposit bottles up here too. Barr's Irn Bru (and other sodas from them) were popular in glass bottles that IIRC had a 20p deposit on them when I was a kid. Maybe I've assumed wrong but I figured it was the drinks companies that decided to use deposit bottles rather than the government forcing it on them back then? Absolutely. The thinking being that it was cheaper than buying new bottles all the time. I think beer was one of the major drivers - when most bottled beer was bottle conditioned, i.e. had a secondary fermentation in the bottle to produce the CO2, bottles had to be thick and strong to withstand the pressures that could build up, particularly if a batch was particularly lively. Once beer was mostly brewery conditioned, i.e. filtered and primed with CO2 at the brewery, then the pressure was much more consistent, and safety margins could be cut considerably. The subsequent bottles were both cheaper and much lighter, reducing bottle and distribution costs, so making reuse less attractive. And of course canning rather changed the game... I suspect that there were technology changes as well. I'm pretty sure we would have covered this in the glass module of my degree course, given the Chemistry professor who taught it had a strong emphasis on beer in his teaching (loved that guy!), but I don't recall it. Anyway, the soft drink makers also started using thinner, cheaper non-returnable bottles. I guess also that the fuel crisis of the mid 70s will have had a major impact via return costs. Milk bottles were also redesigned to be thinner and lighter, but obviously there were no pressure issues here, and the biggest impact on this market was clearly supermarket milk. |
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Post by nickr on Apr 21, 2023 8:16:37 GMT
The deposit system worked in it's time. Will it work now? The theory is fine, as usual with this kind of thing, however retail has changed with much food and drink shopping being made at supermarkets where the practicalities of this really will cause problems. Those who discard items anywhere at will are not going to work on the "I'll get 20p if I take this back" principle, they will still do exactly the same as they care neither about the 20p or the environment around them. It does still work for the relatively small amount of milk which is doorstep delivered but I couldn't see a national scheme working now. Works fine in places like Germany, and many US states. Many supermarkets have a machine where you put your empties on a conveyor, it scans the barcodes and gives you a receipt that you can exchange for cash at the service desk or hand over as part payment for your groceries. The origin of the bottles or jars isn't important, so no, quite the opposite, supermarkets are actually the way it works, not a barrier to it working. |
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Post by davem399 on Apr 21, 2023 8:30:26 GMT
Back in the 60’s, I had a Saturday job at the local Coop supermarket. One of my jobs was to box up the empty returned Domestos bleach bottles which had had a deposit paid on them.
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Post by JohnY on Apr 21, 2023 18:52:40 GMT
You get the deposit back from retailers so for me, and I expect most others, it will mean taking the empties back to the supermarket when we go shopping. New changes to the scheme are exemptions for containers under 100ml and for limited runs of less than 5000 bottles. Also we won't be able to go to the pub and pay for a pint with empty cans of Tennants. a) Some of us get delivered, b) I get my wine delivered not by a supermarket - which I very seldom visit anyway - so unless my offie offers a pick up service...
If there is 10p a bottle then there will be competing organisations wanting to collect them. Volunteers from all sorts of organisations will collect for 10p a bottle. Even I would collect them for registered charity No 1079665. I bet the Scouts would get them first. |
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Post by JohnY on Apr 21, 2023 18:58:40 GMT
The deposit system worked in it's time. Will it work now? The theory is fine, as usual with this kind of thing, however retail has changed with much food and drink shopping being made at supermarkets where the practicalities of this really will cause problems. Those who discard items anywhere at will are not going to work on the "I'll get 20p if I take this back" principle, they will still do exactly the same as they care neither about the 20p or the environment around them. It does still work for the relatively small amount of milk which is doorstep delivered but I couldn't see a national scheme working now. Works fine in places like Germany, and many US states. Many supermarkets have a machine where you put your empties on a conveyor, it scans the barcodes and gives you a receipt that you can exchange for cash at the service desk or hand over as part payment for your groceries. The origin of the bottles or jars isn't important, so no, quite the opposite, supermarkets are actually the way it works, not a barrier to it working. That's very good. I'd play ball. |
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Post by willien on Apr 21, 2023 18:59:37 GMT
I did think of coming up with something extremely sarcastic about someone being a friend of a country park and then thought "Willie, don't be an arse" - so, well done you.  |
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Post by JohnY on Apr 21, 2023 19:20:32 GMT
I did think of coming up with something extremely sarcastic about someone being a friend of a country park and then thought "Willie, don't be an arse" - so, well done you. And well done you for looking it up. I gain more than I give. |
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Post by andytake2 on Apr 22, 2023 7:49:22 GMT
I think most of us remember taking back bottles to the shop for 5p or so. I used to live in Kings Lynn where there was a Corona bottling plant, so returning the bottles to the shop must have been a huge saving for them.
If there were a scheme for standardising jars and bottles it would be a huge help in re-using rather than recycling, which is a huge money-saver.
Glass can only be recycled a few times as glass, after that it can be ground up and used in road surfaces etc.
Re-using the stuff is far better.
It does baffle me successive governments haven't cottoned on. The Cunservatives area always trying to monetise things, yet are happy to just ship stuff off abroad for 'recycling' or just binning it, all of which costs money.
I remember in the 80s a friend's family member coming over from Germany, and being really cross that things were not recycled - they were completely baffled why nanny wasn't putting things into separate bins.
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Post by JohnY on Apr 22, 2023 9:37:35 GMT
I did think of coming up with something extremely sarcastic about someone being a friend of a country park and then thought "Willie, don't be an arse" - so, well done you. And well done you for looking it up. I gain more than I give. Of main topic but I got the last newsletter out to members a couple of weeks ago. There were no errors raised and our web master has put it on line here www.friends-of-rcp.co.uk/newsletters/Issue99.pdf . |
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Post by lesleysm2 on Apr 23, 2023 0:33:40 GMT
When me and my brothers were kids each year either on Boxing Day or New Years Eve mum and dad had a party and the next day we were told any empty bottles that needed to go back to the shop if we took them we could keep the money
These days my parents would have been done for neglect when we first started I was 6 and my brother was 5 (we didn't take our youngest brother at that point because we needed his pram for the bottles and when we did finally take him along a few years later he made a very eloquent (well for a 4 year old) case for getting his share of the profits, first sign of the yuppie he would become there!) to get the bottles to the shop we had to cross 2 busy main roads (just occurred to me that perhaps our parents were trying to get us killed off) walk a fair way then take the bottles in and collect the deposit money, which we then spent in the shop anyway on various causes of tooth decay and then we had to cross those 2 busy main roads on the way back
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Post by JohnY on Apr 23, 2023 20:29:35 GMT
We liberated bottles and were paid. I vaguely remember an occasion when a large number of bottles were liberated from the yard of one shop in Chapel Allerton and deposits claimed in the adjoining Carr Manor. The police got involved and we were terrified. For some reason, perhaps a real crime, the Police did not follow up the misdemeanour. 'Twas a close shave.
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Post by Bipolar on Apr 23, 2023 22:45:46 GMT
I have a couple friends that run a charity and collect bottles and cans to help people with medical expenses.
I donate all my recyclables to them as do a lot of people. Last year they made just over $100,000.00.
The money goes to people that can't afford to pay for prescription drugs and to cover the cost of travel
expenses when travelling to other cities for medical treatment.
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Post by andy on Apr 24, 2023 7:43:11 GMT
I have a couple friends that run a charity and collect bottles and cans to help people with medical expenses. I donate all my recyclables to them as do a lot of people. Last year they made just over $100,000.00. The money goes to people that can't afford to pay for prescription drugs and to cover the cost of travel expenses when travelling to other cities for medical treatment. Good idea. I think I read somewhere that one of the options on some deposit return machines here will be to donate the money to charity. (Other options being cash or store credit.) |
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