AGW
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by AGW on Nov 10, 2023 13:32:57 GMT
It took about 3 years to convert the death trap A77 to motorway (M77). During that time the A77 was in constant roadworks and was capped and monitored at 40mph.
Traffic adjusted...deaths plumitted.
I guess they didnt need a motorway, just a lower speed limit.
Graeme
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Post by andy on Nov 10, 2023 15:14:56 GMT
It took about 3 years to convert the death trap A77 to motorway (M77). During that time the A77 was in constant roadworks and was capped and monitored at 40mph. Traffic adjusted...deaths plumitted. I guess they didnt need a motorway, just a lower speed limit. Graeme Think it would be much the same story on the A9 and A82 which seem to take turns being the most dangerous road in the country. They can either spend billions trying to idiot proof dual-carriageways, get rid of the retards doing 20mph+ under the speed limit or just accept the lowest common denominator and reduce the speed limit. |
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Post by mick on Nov 10, 2023 18:41:00 GMT
It took about 3 years to convert the death trap A77 to motorway (M77). During that time the A77 was in constant roadworks and was capped and monitored at 40mph. Traffic adjusted...deaths plumitted. I guess they didnt need a motorway, just a lower speed limit. Graeme Think it would be much the same story on the A9 and A82 which seem to take turns being the most dangerous road in the country. They can either spend billions trying to idiot proof dual-carriageways, get rid of the retards doing 20mph+ under the speed limit or just accept the lowest common denominator and reduce the speed limit. I sometimes travel 15mph below the limit. I do it because I'm in no rush, I want to conserve fuel, I don't want to 'fight' with the retards who undertake, overtake and generally make a dangerous nuisance of themselves. I also, on a new route, enjoy the view.
Sometimes I do it because the weather conditions make it unsafe (IMHO) to go faster.
Do you class me as a retard?
Mick
PS Actually probably 13mph below the limit. I try to go a whisker faster than the lorries. I don't like being overtaken by a juggernaut!
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Post by andy on Nov 10, 2023 19:26:04 GMT
Think it would be much the same story on the A9 and A82 which seem to take turns being the most dangerous road in the country. They can either spend billions trying to idiot proof dual-carriageways, get rid of the retards doing 20mph+ under the speed limit or just accept the lowest common denominator and reduce the speed limit. I sometimes travel 15mph below the limit. I do it because I'm in no rush, I want to conserve fuel, I don't want to 'fight' with the retards who undertake, overtake and generally make a dangerous nuisance of themselves. I also, on a new route, enjoy the view.
Sometimes I do it because the weather conditions make it unsafe (IMHO) to go faster.
Do you class me as a retard?
Mick
PS Actually probably 13mph below the limit. I try to go a whisker faster than the lorries. I don't like being overtaken by a juggernaut!
If you want to enjoy the view pull over. Whilst driving you have one job. Every time I go on those roads I see people creating long tail backs and many of the fatal crashes are head on while somebody is overtaking. Lowering the speed limit would help at crashes that happen at junctions too. |
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Post by mick on Nov 11, 2023 15:11:59 GMT
I sometimes travel 15mph below the limit. I do it because I'm in no rush, I want to conserve fuel, I don't want to 'fight' with the retards who undertake, overtake and generally make a dangerous nuisance of themselves. I also, on a new route, enjoy the view.
Sometimes I do it because the weather conditions make it unsafe (IMHO) to go faster.
Do you class me as a retard?
Mick
PS Actually probably 13mph below the limit. I try to go a whisker faster than the lorries. I don't like being overtaken by a juggernaut!
If you want to enjoy the view pull over. Whilst driving you have one job. Every time I go on those roads I see people creating long tail backs and many of the fatal crashes are head on while somebody is overtaking. Lowering the speed limit would help at crashes that happen at junctions too. Ah!! I thought that you were writing about M'ways. My first reaction was, "have you ever tried 'pulling over' on the M25".
You need to remember a couple of things. First the speed limit is a maximum. It's not a recommendation or a target or a right. You have no right at all to complain if a driver chooses not to drive at the limit.
Second it's not the slow driver that makes the accident it's the 'retard' that has no patience and decides to overtake inappropriately. Remember that the slow driver may not be as competent as you think you are and may be driving safely as he sees it. No-one forces you to overtake and meet head on traffic. There's no rule that says that you can't stay back and relax until it's certainly safe. If you have an accident overtaking a slow driver it's your fault and not his.
Some years ago I was stopped by the police and breathalysed for driving too slowly. Admittedly the vehicle did stink of booze but that was the passengers - I hadn't touched any. The reason that I was driving so slowly was that the brake warning light had come on and I was seeking a safe place to stop. You need to know the facts before being too critical.
Mick
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Post by andy on Nov 11, 2023 16:22:04 GMT
If you want to enjoy the view pull over. Whilst driving you have one job. Every time I go on those roads I see people creating long tail backs and many of the fatal crashes are head on while somebody is overtaking. Lowering the speed limit would help at crashes that happen at junctions too. Ah!! I thought that you were writing about M'ways. My first reaction was, "have you ever tried 'pulling over' on the M25".
You need to remember a couple of things. First the speed limit is a maximum. It's not a recommendation or a target or a right. You have no right at all to complain if a driver chooses not to drive at the limit.
Second it's not the slow driver that makes the accident it's the 'retard' that has no patience and decides to overtake inappropriately. Remember that the slow driver may not be as competent as you think you are and may be driving safely as he sees it. No-one forces you to overtake and meet head on traffic. There's no rule that says that you can't stay back and relax until it's certainly safe. If you have an accident overtaking a slow driver it's your fault and not his.
Some years ago I was stopped by the police and breathalysed for driving too slowly. Admittedly the vehicle did stink of booze but that was the passengers - I hadn't touched any. The reason that I was driving so slowly was that the brake warning light had come on and I was seeking a safe place to stop. You need to know the facts before being too critical.
Mick
Last time I went up the A9 there was a car doing 35mph, slowing down a coach and then a load of cars stuck behind that. If that's the best the car or driver can do they are not fit to be on the road. 10 vehicles back there's no safe (or legal) way past. Much the same last time I was on the A82 with 3 land rovers towing caravans travelling in convoy causing a massive tailback. In California drivers can be done for causing a tailback with 5 or more vehicles. |
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Post by geoffr on Nov 11, 2023 19:16:44 GMT
If you want to enjoy the view pull over. Whilst driving you have one job. Every time I go on those roads I see people creating long tail backs and many of the fatal crashes are head on while somebody is overtaking. Lowering the speed limit would help at crashes that happen at junctions too. Ah!! I thought that you were writing about M'ways. My first reaction was, "have you ever tried 'pulling over' on the M25".
You need to remember a couple of things. First the speed limit is a maximum. It's not a recommendation or a target or a right. You have no right at all to complain if a driver chooses not to drive at the limit.
Second it's not the slow driver that makes the accident it's the 'retard' that has no patience and decides to overtake inappropriately. Remember that the slow driver may not be as competent as you think you are and may be driving safely as he sees it. No-one forces you to overtake and meet head on traffic. There's no rule that says that you can't stay back and relax until it's certainly safe. If you have an accident overtaking a slow driver it's your fault and not his.
Some years ago I was stopped by the police and breathalysed for driving too slowly. Admittedly the vehicle did stink of booze but that was the passengers - I hadn't touched any. The reason that I was driving so slowly was that the brake warning light had come on and I was seeking a safe place to stop. You need to know the facts before being too critical.
Mick
On the old AP forum I posted a link to a driving manual, it said that in the absence of good reasons not to do so, one should drive at the speed limit. Depending on the speed limit, driving at a speed significantly lower could be considered driving without due care and attention. I can’t remember the manual I quoted previously but if I can find it I will post a link. |
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Post by willien on Nov 11, 2023 19:50:25 GMT
Ah!! I thought that you were writing about M'ways. My first reaction was, "have you ever tried 'pulling over' on the M25".
You need to remember a couple of things. First the speed limit is a maximum. It's not a recommendation or a target or a right. You have no right at all to complain if a driver chooses not to drive at the limit.
Second it's not the slow driver that makes the accident it's the 'retard' that has no patience and decides to overtake inappropriately. Remember that the slow driver may not be as competent as you think you are and may be driving safely as he sees it. No-one forces you to overtake and meet head on traffic. There's no rule that says that you can't stay back and relax until it's certainly safe. If you have an accident overtaking a slow driver it's your fault and not his.
Some years ago I was stopped by the police and breathalysed for driving too slowly. Admittedly the vehicle did stink of booze but that was the passengers - I hadn't touched any. The reason that I was driving so slowly was that the brake warning light had come on and I was seeking a safe place to stop. You need to know the facts before being too critical.
Mick
On the old AP forum I posted a link to a driving manual, it said that in the absence of good reasons not to do so, one should drive at the speed limit. Depending on the speed limit, driving at a speed significantly lower could be considered driving without due care and attention. I can’t remember the manual I quoted previously but if I can find it I will post a link. My view is. It is perfectly OK for people to drive below or well below the speed limit providing, a) they are nevertheless fit to drive, b) they are not taking the piss, and c) they observe the basic human decency of pulling into every laybye to let people pass. As for the aerosoles crawling on single track roads who do not pull into passing places to let people past ... |
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Post by JohnY on Nov 11, 2023 22:34:48 GMT
I can remember driving in Northern Scotland. The A9 a deathtrap. An East West road further north, I forget the details but we'd been hillwalking on one of those wonderful mountains in the North West, single carriage way, presumably 60 mph national limit, good visibility for at least a mile. It was probably built for the fish industry. 90 on the clock no problem and in a faster car could have been over a ton.
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Post by mick on Nov 12, 2023 9:36:12 GMT
My view is. It is perfectly OK for people to drive below or well below the speed limit providing, a) they are nevertheless fit to drive, b) they are not taking the piss, and c) they observe the basic human decency of pulling into every laybye to let people pass. As for the aerosoles crawling on single track roads who do not pull into passing places to let people past ... I guess that no-one will quibble with that.
Mick
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Post by geoffr on Nov 12, 2023 20:51:16 GMT
My view is. It is perfectly OK for people to drive below or well below the speed limit providing, a) they are nevertheless fit to drive, b) they are not taking the piss, and c) they observe the basic human decency of pulling into every laybye to let people pass. As for the aerosoles crawling on single track roads who do not pull into passing places to let people past ... I guess that no-one will quibble with that.
Mick
Except those driving well below the speed limit who don’t pull into every lay by to let people pass. |
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Post by peterob on Nov 12, 2023 21:47:42 GMT
My view is. It is perfectly OK for people to drive below or well below the speed limit providing, a) they are nevertheless fit to drive, b) they are not taking the piss, and c) they observe the basic human decency of pulling into every laybye to let people pass. As for the aerosoles crawling on single track roads who do not pull into passing places to let people past ... I guess that no-one will quibble with that.
Mick
I like a challenge. People should be free to drive at a speed they feel comfortable at. Our first company advanced driving tuition (to cut road accidents) was with a police advanced driving instructor who favoured "making progress" which is the correct jargon for adhering to the speed limit ( = 60 mph) where someone with advanced skills can do so safely. I still have nightmares recalling the assurance "you can feel the car sitting into the bend" as my right foot wants to hit the brake as I am urged to put the power on. I just came back from a few days away - did about 800 miles. I found myself driving slower than I usually would because of potholes - I really saw some big ones that would have been problematic to encounter at 60, purely from a reaction time point of view. So I was driving nearer 50 a lot of the time with a local flatbed driver on his way home, far too close behind, but I wouldn't consider that I was obstructing him. I am sure that if we had changed places, so that he hit the hazards first, then our joint progress would not have changed. I don't mind being behind a slow driver. Waiting for an overtaking opportunity is just a matter of patience, and patience is important for safe driving. I find drivers who fail to make progress by sticking to, say, 45 in national speed limit areas on good roads but who fail to slow for 40 and 30 mph zones a tad frustrating to be behind. Pulling into a layby is good practice for, say a tractor or other really slow HGV or towing vehicle on roads with no passing opportunities. I don't remember ever seeing a passenger or light goods vehicle going that slowly that I couldn't pass within a reasonable time. I've never had a real problem in a car on single track roads. It is quite amazing how on-coming traffic is most often met near passing points. I had one Porsche Cayenne (when they were new) driver who was averse to getting close to a dry stone wall in the Lakes. That was awkward. One lady in Devon who lacked the confidence to pass - it was OK once we folded the wing mirrors in - I was in a passing place and touching the hedge so it was all down to her. I have reversed into a passing place and then had to be towed out because the back nearside wheel went into a 2' hole. Thank goodness the car had an anti-torsion bar or the fuel tank would have gone. |
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Post by willien on Nov 12, 2023 23:00:36 GMT
Once leaving the Thrieve Castle complex (single track road), I had just crossed the hump back bridge when a car driven by a young asian woman suddenly accelerated straight towards me. I saw her husband's mouth moving rapidly then with a very unhappy look on her face she reversed to the passing place she was passing when I appeared.
I assume she had heard that the car nearest to a passing place does the reversing and decided it was some sort of contest. Quite apart from the fact that the passing place somewhere behind me could not be seen, therefore she could not claim to be furthest away, expecting someone to reverse over a hump back bridge is not exactly reasonable.
I nevertheless managed to refrain from giving her a cheery salute on the way past.
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Post by willien on Nov 12, 2023 23:04:46 GMT
On the old AP forum I posted a link to a driving manual, it said that in the absence of good reasons not to do so, one should drive at the speed limit. Depending on the speed limit, driving at a speed significantly lower could be considered driving without due care and attention. I can’t remember the manual I quoted previously but if I can find it I will post a link. My view is. It is perfectly OK for people to drive below or well below the speed limit providing, a) they are nevertheless fit to drive, b) they are not taking the piss, and c) they observe the basic human decency of pulling into every laybye to let people pass. As for the aerosoles crawling on single track roads who do not pull into passing places to let people past ... I was not very clear. I do not think someone doing 50 should pull in at every laybye. We frequently get stuck in a sloew moving convoy which appears to have a truck at the front until you get a decent view and see the truck is following a dawdling car. Truck cannot pass car. Nothing else cane safely pass truck and car. |
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Post by mick on Nov 13, 2023 8:16:59 GMT
The problem with a thread such as this is that there are always exceptions and situations that call for action different from the 'norm'. As I've said many times in other threads, it's impossible to write the essay that covers all the ifs, buts and maybes.
As an example. I live in a rural area that has quite a lot of single track lanes. Typically, they are bounded with high banks so visibility is limited. I've said in another thread that the LA seems to be going nuts with road works and so these lanes are getting busy, especially with 'white van man'. I admit that I sometimes hold up white van man. I do that because I fear his mate whizzing round the bend towards me - and so on. If he's held up, I argue that it's because I am driving safely and he doesn't want to.
Mick.
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