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Post by MJB on Dec 20, 2022 19:43:09 GMT
I still think that the Posties would get more support from the public (and a faster resolution to their dispute) if they just said that they would carry on working but no letter or parcel would need to have any paid postage on it, they'd accept and deliver all parcels and letters for free That's not the postie's decision to make for all sorts of legal reasons. The Royal Mail won't send mail with unpaid postage. |
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Post by Kellen on Dec 20, 2022 21:41:50 GMT
If we were genuinely in 'hard times' the heads of the industries which are mostly affected by strikes wouldn't have taken home record salaries and dividends following huge increases in revenue. The situation is to a large extent manufactured, thanks to the economics of Thatcher and Reagan, but there is also the passive impact of cuts to regulations and how business can be asset stripped. Also, thanks to Thatcher and Reagan. So we ought instead to stand by our striking colleagues, and sign a refrain of ____ the Tories. The current hard times are down to covid, the ukraine & brexit (one off chemicals/parts etc for my work that used to be delivered within a week now take many months). Thatcher & Reagan had nothing to do with any of these. Yeah, I thought that was a bit stretchy as well. Been 32 years since Thatcher was PM, 34 years since Reagan was president. Remember the movie "Dances with Wolves"? That's how far back we're talking. Heck, I'd not even taken my first trip to Europe yet. While it will always be true that history lays a foundation for the future, it is a fallacy to consider the past as determinant. If it was that simple then humankind would be much better at predicting the future. |
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Post by willien on Dec 20, 2022 23:31:59 GMT
I think the Royal mail's reasons are more commercial than legal. IIRC if an unstamped letter is droppen a post box they offer it to the addressee for payment which, again IIRC carried an admin surcharge over standard pre-paid delivery.
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Post by andy on Dec 21, 2022 9:46:16 GMT
I think the Royal mail's reasons are more commercial than legal. IIRC if an unstamped letter is droppen a post box they offer it to the addressee for payment which, again IIRC carried an admin surcharge over standard pre-paid delivery. Isn't that how it worked when they started out? Or maybe that was the US postal service...I think they had posties before they had stamps. |
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Post by MJB on Dec 21, 2022 9:54:21 GMT
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Post by peterba on Dec 21, 2022 11:12:23 GMT
The current hard times are down to covid, the ukraine & brexit (one off chemicals/parts etc for my work that used to be delivered within a week now take many months). Thatcher & Reagan had nothing to do with any of these. Yeah, I thought that was a bit stretchy as well. Been 32 years since Thatcher was PM We've been living with the effects of the Thatcherite ideology of tax reduction (which superficially appeals to voters, of course) ever since. Now, after 40+ years, the chickens are coming home roost in a big way. Public services in the UK are falling to pieces through under-investment, and Joe Public is getting restive because it's now plain for all to see that simply wishing for good public services doesn't work. We, the public, need to pay for them..... according to our means. And more than ever, we could do with some serious assistance, and good will, from the ~3m millionaires (and ~100 billionaires) in the country - rather than continuing to allow (some of) them to indulge in complex tax-avoidance/evasion schemes. |
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Post by gray1720 on Dec 21, 2022 12:03:38 GMT
It's hard not to be political because, in the last 12 years, my chosen field has had funding hacked back by central government in 2011, which coost me my job, and it's taken until 2021 to get back to the same salary I was on at the time. In 2023 I will start a job that will see me back in the area where salary progression might have got me by now, but still leaving a decade-long hole in my pension and ability to buy stuff, put stuff by for rainy day etc. I'm over 50 now, I'll never get that back. I'm probably on about the same, allowing for inflation, as I was in 2010, but paying a mortgage on it, paying for things like petrol that have gone up dramatically (60-odd% since 2016, and sometimes higher than that)... I'm sure you all get the picture.
As a cross-border entity, my chosen field has also taken a shafting from other political decisions made since then. The UK is desperately trying to make treaties with the Swiss to get a back-door into the bodies we used to have access to data from. It's screwed funding, it's screwed availability of talent (unlike the NHS, we can't just pillage the Philippines), it's screwed access to data - and numbers are everything in science. It's also one of the factors that screwed delivery of goods and services and is crippling the ability to do research as I speak. The workplace I'm leaving has delays of some items we need of over two years - this is highly specialised equipment, this isn't just stuff you can pick off the shelf. China's Covid issues are a factor, but you when you've deliberately cut yourself off from your neighbours, that's exactly the sort of thing you lay yourself open to by taking slack out of the system.
Apart from that, obviously, it's all been strong and stable, and a win for Britain.
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Post by mick on Dec 21, 2022 12:56:40 GMT
A few random remarks:
1. I really can't buy the 'Thatcher' argument. As folk have said it's been over 30 years. There have also been seven PM's and three colours of government since then.
2. Train drivers - there's a pretty strong argument that there needn't be a driver at all, let alone two, in the cab. The DLR seems to work pretty well on that basis.
3. I too, as I've said, have been financially shafted over the last decade or so. I have great sympathy for those similarly affected.
4. No one, maybe I've missed a post or two, seems to have seriously addressed my point that keeping up or even beating inflation isn't a God given right.
Mick
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Post by gray1720 on Dec 21, 2022 13:07:50 GMT
A few random remarks: 4. No one, maybe I've missed a post or two, seems to have seriously addressed my point that keeping up or even beating inflation isn't a God given right. Mick So at which point should people just say "Sod it!" and fall into penury? What incentive is there for anybody to bother, if they will become less well off? |
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Post by peterba on Dec 21, 2022 13:34:48 GMT
So at which point should people just say "Sod it!" and fall into penury? What incentive is there for anybody to bother, if they will become less well off? I completely agree, Adrian..... but, sadly, I think you're wasting your breath, here. |
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Post by andy on Dec 21, 2022 13:42:42 GMT
deliberately cut yourself off from your neighbours   |
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Post by gray1720 on Dec 21, 2022 13:57:58 GMT
deliberately cut yourself off from your neighbours Now you have me conflicted there because that would be my route to an EU passport... but my other half and out-laws could end up stateless, marooned in a "united" kingdom they weren't born in. |
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Post by nickr on Dec 21, 2022 14:15:42 GMT
4. No one, maybe I've missed a post or two, seems to have seriously addressed my point that keeping up or even beating inflation isn't a God given right. Mick Nothing's a "God given right" if gods don't exist, now is it?  But realistically, on one level you're right, but at a deeper level you're not. Throughout history, from the very earliest times, societies that haven't managed to keep a moderately even distribution of assets just haven't survived for long. Let people fall behind inflation for too long, and you are feeding precisely those social pressures that lead to violent overthrow of the system. Now how long is too long is the question - but when it's fuelled by seeing sights like Michelle Mone heading off in a private jet bought after her allegedly corrupt PPE dealings to a £6000 a night ski resort, probably less long than one might previously considered. And when the Prime Minister is married to one of the richest people in the country, again it's perhaps not surprising that people don't think he sees the full picture. The politics of envy? Perhaps, but inevitable when people are seeing their living standards fall whilst those in power prosper. And then if you think of nurses' pay, there's the issue of supply and demand. The supply of nurses isn't keeping up with demand. A free market would force wages up to increase the supply. That's not happening, because it's not a free market - it's a command structure. Of course Brexit further restricted supply, based largely on the lie that immigrants were responsible for the problems within the NHS, when they were actually net contributors, meaning that one massive source of nurses was turned off. The fundamental lack of honesty - that NHS problems, and those of public services generally, were due to lack of funding due to austerity rather than immigrants, has cost us very, very dear indeed. Anyway, is it all the direct fault of Thatcher (and Reagan)? Of course not. Is it a natural outcome of 40 years of application of her (and his) economic thinking? Well now, how isn't it? |
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Post by andy on Dec 21, 2022 16:03:12 GMT
Now you have me conflicted there because that would be my route to an EU passport... but my other half and out-laws could end up stateless, marooned in a "united" kingdom they weren't born in. I'm not fussed about the colour of passports although it seems like a completely unnecessary PITA if I needed one to visit friends and family down south. |
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Post by mick on Dec 23, 2022 10:18:30 GMT
4. No one, maybe I've missed a post or two, seems to have seriously addressed my point that keeping up or even beating inflation isn't a God given right. Mick Nothing's a "God given right" if gods don't exist, now is it? But realistically, on one level you're right, but at a deeper level you're not. Throughout history, from the very earliest times, societies that haven't managed to keep a moderately even distribution of assets just haven't survived for long. Let people fall behind inflation for too long, and you are feeding precisely those social pressures that lead to violent overthrow of the system. Now how long is too long is the question - but when it's fuelled by seeing sights like Michelle Mone heading off in a private jet bought after her allegedly corrupt PPE dealings to a £6000 a night ski resort, probably less long than one might previously considered. And when the Prime Minister is married to one of the richest people in the country, again it's perhaps not surprising that people don't think he sees the full picture. The politics of envy? Perhaps, but inevitable when people are seeing their living standards fall whilst those in power prosper. And then if you think of nurses' pay, there's the issue of supply and demand. The supply of nurses isn't keeping up with demand. A free market would force wages up to increase the supply. That's not happening, because it's not a free market - it's a command structure. Of course Brexit further restricted supply, based largely on the lie that immigrants were responsible for the problems within the NHS, when they were actually net contributors, meaning that one massive source of nurses was turned off. The fundamental lack of honesty - that NHS problems, and those of public services generally, were due to lack of funding due to austerity rather than immigrants, has cost us very, very dear indeed. Anyway, is it all the direct fault of Thatcher (and Reagan)? Of course not. Is it a natural outcome of 40 years of application of her (and his) economic thinking? Well now, how isn't it? Thanks for your response. Food for thought.
I intend this to be my last post in this thread!
1. It's very tough to have this discussion and keep it apolitical. It's also very tough to avoid answers being swayed by very deserving cases.
2. Sorry for using the term 'God Given' - I really wasn't trying to bring religion into it!! 3. I don't know enough history to argue with your point about the longevity of societies. However my (extremely sketchy) knowledge of the Roman Empire seems to contradict your statement. Am I wrong? 4. I understand, but don't fully agree with, your point about Sunak and his riches. After all we don't expect a doctor to have suffered from all the diseases that he/she has to treat. There's a separate point too. Is it possible, in this country, for a truly poor person to become PM - it isn't in the USA. 5. A topic such as this is complex and, for me at least, it's just not possible to write every nuance, exception and possibility. Therefore, it's possible, and it seems to have happened in this thread that folk make invalid assumptions about statements.
6. As many have pointed out here, we get fed 'news' by organisations that have a vested interest in promoting a particular point of view. Thus (and DON'T misunderstand this) we get fed stories of nurses using food banks. As I've said my son and D-in-Law are nurses and between them work about 1.5 -1.7 full time equivalents. They live reasonably, bring up their kids and don't need food banks. It's true that they don't live high on the hog but they are OK. To head off the obvious remark - yes they have lived on a single income but they had to cut their cloth differently. My point is that I really don't know and probably, neither does anyone here, what the position of the 'average' nurse really is. Even when we get fed salary numbers from either the union or the government, I'm intensely suspicious because they both have their own axe to grind. Having said that I agree absolutely that the nursing profession is a special case and should be getting special treatment. I do not believe that the rail workers are in the same category, but I'm mindful of what I just wrote - my 'information' may not be entirely reliable. 7. Finally I still don't see that it's possible to expect living standards to constantly improve year after uninterrupted year. There are times in the economic cycle of every country when living standards must fall in order for the country to survive. In any civilized society, when that happens, the truly needy should be protected.
I know that there are folk on here who won't agree and that's inevitable. I didn't want to come over as someone who thinks that the devil should take the hindmost
Over and out (for this thread)
Mick.
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