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Post by kate on Jan 25, 2023 18:14:17 GMT
Now that agreement to send modern tanks to Ukraine has been reached, is this good news for Ukraine or will it escalate Russia's aggression towards the West?
I must admit to starting to feel things could get a lot worse from now on. Is Putin mad enough to extend his fight into Europe?
Am I just being negative in thinking the tanks are a step too far? What does anyone else think?
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Post by zou on Jan 25, 2023 18:21:02 GMT
I think it's no longer possible to truthfully avoid calling it a proxy war.  |
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Post by squeamishossifrage on Jan 25, 2023 18:24:29 GMT
Ukraine has to win, and if tanks help achieve that, then they must have them. The downside of a Russian win, and a newly confident Putin is far too dangerous for Europe. The Baltic states would be next, and then NATO gets involved, and we have WW 3 on our hands. The real solution is to get Putin removed.
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Post by John Farrell on Jan 25, 2023 18:34:40 GMT
The only threat that Putin can make, that is credible, is a nuclear attack. The past 10 months have shown that Russian conventional forces are low quality - if Putin was foolish enough to attack a NATO member with his conventional military, the Russians would be destroyed.
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Post by kate on Jan 25, 2023 18:49:18 GMT
The only threat that Putin can make, that is credible, is a nuclear attack. The past 10 months have shown that Russian conventional forces are low quality - if Putin was foolish enough to attack a NATO member with his conventional military, the Russians would be destroyed. That's what I'm afraid of. If he thinks he cannot now win, I cannot believe he will simply withdraw. He does not accept failure. That's why I'm afraid of his next move. |
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Post by squeamishossifrage on Jan 25, 2023 18:50:01 GMT
The only threat that Putin can make, that is credible, is a nuclear attack. The past 10 months have shown that Russian conventional forces are low quality - if Putin was foolish enough to attack a NATO member with his conventional military, the Russians would be destroyed. Absolutely, but that wouldn't stop him trying, if it was that or his downfall. |
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Post by John Farrell on Jan 25, 2023 18:56:13 GMT
How long can society in Russia bear the privation caused by sanctions, and their appalling casualty rate in Ukraine? When will Putin's government machine collapse under its own contradictions?
The pressure on Russia has to be increased - the tank supply to Ukraine is one part of this. Expect to see western aircraft supplied soon. I also expect to see a move against Lukashenko in Belarus, to take out Putin's ally.
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Post by JohnY on Jan 25, 2023 19:28:28 GMT
I think it's no longer possible to truthfully avoid calling it a proxy war. It certainly is a proxy war. Its very sad that thousands of Ukrainians and ordinary Russians and disposables (in Putin's eyes) are being killed or mutilated. What's the choice? If the West gives in then what nation is next? Poland? Or perhaps those little states that sit between Russia and that enclave on the ice free Baltic? Civilised Europe gave in to Hitler until it was nearly too late. We ignored the 2014 invasion of Crimea. A sign of weakness. It gives me no pleasure to agree with you. It is a proxy war.
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Post by squeamishossifrage on Jan 25, 2023 19:59:14 GMT
What really, really gets me cranked up, is that the world grew out of this kind of expansionism in 1945, certainly in Europe. Empire quite rightly died, as did the idea of invading ones neighbours. The whole thing is insanity. Russia's economy was two thirds of the UK economy, and yet Putin must have known that he would end up facing two of the world's largest economic powers - the US and Europe. Europe will never again trust Russia as an energy provider, so their economy is shot. Somehow the West must break his propaganda machine and hope for an uprising. Fat chance!
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Post by John Farrell on Jan 25, 2023 20:07:58 GMT
What really, really gets me cranked up, is that the world grew out of this kind of expansionism in 1945, certainly in Europe. Empire quite rightly died, as did the idea of invading ones neighbours. The whole thing is insanity. Russia's economy was two thirds of the UK economy, and yet Putin must have known that he would end up facing two of the world's largest economic powers - the US and Europe. Europe will never again trust Russia as an energy provider, so their economy is shot. Somehow the West must break his propaganda machine and hope for an uprising. Fat chance! An uprising might just bring another megalomaniac to power. A more useful aim would be to encourage the collapse of the Russian state - push regions towards becoming independant. |
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