|
|
Post by geoffr on Feb 23, 2024 22:00:07 GMT
I see that the mother of one of four young people who died in a car accident is campaigning for the introduction of graduated driving licences.
Fundamentally I support the idea but it really needs careful thought before implementation. As an example, newly qualified drivers would have restrictions on driving at night. At the age of 18, having held a driving licence for about six months I was working shifts finishing at 22:30. The following summer I was doing a rotating shift pattern including nights. I was also expected to do evening classes. Some form of exemption to allow driving on a specific route to and from work might be necessary.
Another suggestion is a minimum of 40 hours tuition. Again I agree in principle but if someone is ready to take the test earlier why not. Much better to introduce post qualification tuition with incentives for completing the course, such as allowing the carriage of one passenger.
What isn’t mentioned is any restriction on the vehicle that a new driver may use. Theoretically a new driver can buy a high performance sports car, in practice of course they couldn’t insure it. However wouldn’t it make sense to limit new drivers, irrespective of age, to relatively small, lower powered vehicles until they have a required minimum number of years experience and have passed a course in handling a higher performance car? Come to think of it, that probably shouldn’t just apply to young drivers, people have been known to write off an expensive sports car straight out of the showroom.
|
|
|
|
Post by JohnY on Feb 23, 2024 23:42:28 GMT
Another possibly useful limitation would be on the carrying of passengers who are not yet out of their own probationary period.
I can still remember the deaths of four of our sixth formers when I was in the fifth form. No other vehicles involved. That was over sixty years ago.
Another one did not involve passengers. One of my students, aged about 15 years, 'borrowed' a Jag from his dad's garage to take his girlfriend out for the evening. After getting her home safely he drove towards home at an ambitious pace and crashed fatally. No other vehicle was involved. He was quite a tearaway and a troublesome pupil but there is little doubt that if he had lived then after school he would have settled down, joined the family business and been a decent, albeit slightly rough, member of society. I often filled up at their garage and sometimes saw him skilfully moving vehicles, with caravans, around the site at a young age. This latter case of course would not have been prevented by rules.
|
|
|
|
Post by andy on Feb 24, 2024 0:29:02 GMT
Pretty sure it wasn't young or new drivers close passing me on the bike this afternoon....it was every driver but one!
|
|
|
|
Post by mick on Feb 24, 2024 8:29:06 GMT
people have been known to write off an expensive sports car straight out of the showroom. Forgive the paucity of real data in what follows. I hope it's true.
Back in the old AP days, someone showed some great pictures of owls. He took them at an airfield somewhere in Essex, I think. I got permission to go and try my luck. On the airfield was a company making high performance cars and they had one in their shop that had clearly been crashed.
I asked questions, and they said that they fitted some sort of timer to the engine and this car had run for about 30 seconds before it crashed.
Mick
|
|
|
|
Post by andy on Feb 24, 2024 9:21:27 GMT
people have been known to write off an expensive sports car straight out of the showroom. Forgive the paucity of real data in what follows. I hope it's true.
Back in the old AP days, someone showed some great pictures of owls. He took them at an airfield somewhere in Essex, I think. I got permission to go and try my luck. On the airfield was a company making high performance cars and they had one in their shop that had clearly been crashed.
I asked questions, and they said that they fitted some sort of timer to the engine and this car had run for about 30 seconds before it crashed.
Mick
Guy takes delivery of a Shelby Cobra and promptly crashes it.... After stalling twice too. |
|
|
|
Post by spinno on Feb 24, 2024 9:28:02 GMT
Some people aren't meant to have expensive toys...
|
|
|
|
Post by zx9 on Feb 24, 2024 9:46:00 GMT
We have graduated licencing for motor bikes, it is a mine field for the younger rider and still does nothing to prevent middle age males buying willie extensions. I am glad I passed my bike test when it was so much less of a training / money making opportunity, even giving up my weekends to teach Part 1 / Part 2 to help pay back the efforts of similar volunteer instructors who had helped me on my journey to a life time of riding.
Do I want to see graduated licencing for cars? No the independence and social / economic mobility of private travel already comes at too high a cost. I do worry that today new drivers can pass on an electric vehicle gaining a Auto only licence and be barred from hiring a manual rental van to move house or student accommodation, that was all a part of growing up when I was young and something my children did not experience.
|
|
|
|
Post by andy on Feb 24, 2024 9:48:14 GMT
There's also no shortage of videos of Ford Mustangs with live rear axles crashing leaving dealerships and car shows.
|
|
|
|
Post by geoffr on Feb 24, 2024 13:40:03 GMT
We have graduated licencing for motor bikes, it is a mine field for the younger rider and still does nothing to prevent middle age males buying willie extensions. I am glad I passed my bike test when it was so much less of a training / money making opportunity, even giving up my weekends to teach Part 1 / Part 2 to help pay back the efforts of similar volunteer instructors who had helped me on my journey to a life time of riding. Do I want to see graduated licencing for cars? No the independence and social / economic mobility of private travel already comes at too high a cost. I do worry that today new drivers can pass on an electric vehicle gaining a Auto only licence and be barred from hiring a manual rental van to move house or student accommodation, that was all a part of growing up when I was young and something my children did not experience. As I said, I like the idea on principle but the details would need considerable care. I agree that anyone passing in an electric car is at a considerable disadvantage, particularly so as a young person is very unlikely to be able to afford an electric car as a first vehicle. However I don't like the current arrangement where a new driver's choice of vehicle is restricted only by their ability to pay the insurance premium. A very wealthy young person is no better equipped to drive, say, an Aston Martin than is an apprentice or student of the same age, they all need to "start small". |
|
|
|
Post by zou on Feb 24, 2024 14:47:59 GMT
The simpler solution is to prohibit vehicles with over (say) 100bhp, and fit all new vehicles with speed limiters. Right?  |
|
|
|
Post by andy on Feb 24, 2024 15:10:42 GMT
The simpler solution is to prohibit vehicles with over (say) 100bhp, and fit all new vehicles with speed limiters. Right? I'd go the other way and ban cars with less than 300hp (or 300hp per ton). Partly because I wouldn't miss them but more because it covers the vast majority of the cars clogging up the roads, parked on pavements or speeding past schools. Be lucky if a teenager can afford to insure something with 100hp as it is and it certainly doesn't stop pensioners crashing them into their garage and driving up premiums either. |
|
|
|
Post by willien on Feb 24, 2024 15:10:53 GMT
The simpler solution is to prohibit vehicles with over (say) 100bhp, and fit all new vehicles with speed limiters. Right? It would certainly slow down the juggernauts. |
|
|
|
Post by zx9 on Feb 24, 2024 15:16:09 GMT
The simpler solution is to prohibit vehicles with over (say) 100bhp, and fit all new vehicles with speed limiters. Right? Sort of but that has loads of flaws, a Fiat 500 with 100 bhp would be quite rapid and would be of interest to a new driver because it is small and easy to drive. A 2 ton SUV with 100 bhp would be as fast as a snail on sedatives but still found in the right hand lane of a motorway flat out at 65mph. because, well just because. |
|
|
|
Post by andy on Feb 24, 2024 15:37:43 GMT
Plenty gutless 2 ton SUVs round here. Think the French specialise in them. |
|
|
|
Post by Fenris on Feb 24, 2024 16:50:08 GMT
At the age of 18, having held a driving licence for about six months I was working shifts finishing at 22:30. The following summer I was doing a rotating shift pattern including nights. I was also expected to do evening classes. Some form of exemption to allow driving on a specific route to and from work might be necessary. I didn't learn to drive till I was 32, never had any need for a car until then as I cycled everywhere. What restrictions would you put on a 32 year old? Another suggestion is a minimum of 40 hours tuition. I took ten lessons, cost me about £150 (if I remember correctly) plus the price of the test. Average costs for driving lessons seem to be about £40 per hour now, so forty hours... £1,600 plus the £62 fee for the driving test. That's putting driving out of the range for a lot of people nowadays. |
|
