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Post by zou on Feb 23, 2024 14:41:34 GMT
Kate/Zou, We are at (slightly) cross purposes. I wasn't talking just about the Israel/Gaza situation. I was trying to make a general point. I strongly believe that MP's, however much we disagree with them, should be protected from threats and from 'the mob'. That's not to say that they shouldn't be challenged and challenged vigorously but to make death threats and involve their families is beyond the pale. Remember that two MP's have been stabbed to death in recent times (Cox and Ammess if memory serves) and others have come under other attack. We can't have parliament being controlled by the thug with the biggest stick. Mick The point is the speaker made the link with this issue of Gaza. Which implies that anti-genocide protesters are the thugs with the biggest stick, when the reality is anything but. The only examples I could find of Gaza related "abuse" was folk asking MPs how they sleep at night supporting genocide. Which is a fair question, I think. After all, if they are ok in principle with indiscriminate mass killing of civilians and war crimes, how could they possibly think such simple questions are "violent"? |
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Post by mick on Feb 23, 2024 14:56:24 GMT
I repeat that I was trying to make a general point. I didn't intend to refer specifically to Israel/Gaza or the speaker.
Mick
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Post by zou on Feb 23, 2024 15:01:00 GMT
I repeat that I was trying to make a general point. I didn't intend to refer specifically to Israel/Gaza or the speaker. Mick Which is fine, and I think we can agree in general. But this thread is about the speaker, and his actions in context of this issue.  |
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Post by kate on Feb 23, 2024 15:15:58 GMT
Kate/Zou, We are at (slightly) cross purposes. I wasn't talking just about the Israel/Gaza situation. I was trying to make a general point. I strongly believe that MP's, however much we disagree with them, should be protected from threats and from 'the mob'. That's not to say that they shouldn't be challenged and challenged vigorously but to make death threats and involve their families is beyond the pale. Remember that two MP's have been stabbed to death in recent times (Cox and Ammess if memory serves) and others have come under other attack. We can't have parliament being controlled by the thug with the biggest stick. Mick It is still no reason to enact laws which restrict the freedom to march, demonstrate, remonstrate or generally harass if needs be by the ones who elected them to represent their views. I think a lot of us now see our democracy as an autocracy and self-preservation society for Parliament. Firemen get burned and die, policemen get injured and killed. Early democracies show that those ruling are not immune to the displeasure of the electorate. |
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Post by MJB on Feb 23, 2024 19:09:13 GMT
Let's not forget that our right to peaceful public protest came about because of those well known violent thugs, the salvationists. In my hometown of Whitchurch, Hampshire 20 Salvationists were charged with riotous assembly and marched to Winchester where they were sentenced to hard labour. This led to a gathering of 1000 people in the town square in protest and the convictions were quashed in the high court and the law was changed to allow peaceful assembly.
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Post by don on Feb 23, 2024 20:25:45 GMT
They all made fools of themselves shouting and jeering like overgrown schoolchildren. They should be ashamed of themselves and all resign
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Post by willien on Feb 23, 2024 20:36:06 GMT
Let's not forget that our right to peaceful public protest came about because of those well known violent thugs, the salvationists. In my hometown of Whitchurch, Hampshire 20 Salvationists were charged with riotous assembly and marched to Winchester where they were sentenced to hard labour. This led to a gathering of 1000 people in the town square in protest and the convictions were quashed in the high court and the law was changed to allow peaceful assembly. Edinburgh had its own way of progressing the right to protest.
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Post by spinno on Feb 23, 2024 22:13:44 GMT
Round here we used to smash knitting frames, burn down ducal mansions, rob the rich to give to the poor, we're just rebels
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Post by willien on Feb 23, 2024 22:17:39 GMT
Round here we used to smash knitting frames, burn down ducal mansions, rob the rich to give to the poor, we're just rebels You are a very naughty boy. |
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Post by spinno on Feb 23, 2024 22:28:45 GMT
Round here we used to smash knitting frames, burn down ducal mansions, rob the rich to give to the poor, we're just rebels You are a very naughty boy. I am not. I am an extremely badly behaved near senior citizen, who will probably get worse as time goes on |
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Post by willien on Feb 23, 2024 22:46:56 GMT
You are a very naughty boy. I am not. I am an extremely badly behaved near senior citizen, who will probably get worse as time goes on Just sayin' dude.
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Post by spinno on Feb 24, 2024 7:47:42 GMT
I am not. I am an extremely badly behaved near senior citizen, who will probably get worse as time goes on Just sayin' dude.
Only oldish in age...mentally who knows 13, 14 not much more at times  |
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Post by mick on Feb 24, 2024 8:17:58 GMT
I repeat that I was trying to make a general point. I didn't intend to refer specifically to Israel/Gaza or the speaker. Mick Which is fine, and I think we can agree in general. But this thread is about the speaker, and his actions in context of this issue. A long time ago, and in another place, a member was very rude to me because I complained of thread drift!
Mick
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Post by mick on Feb 24, 2024 8:20:56 GMT
Kate/Zou, We are at (slightly) cross purposes. I wasn't talking just about the Israel/Gaza situation. I was trying to make a general point. I strongly believe that MP's, however much we disagree with them, should be protected from threats and from 'the mob'. That's not to say that they shouldn't be challenged and challenged vigorously but to make death threats and involve their families is beyond the pale. Remember that two MP's have been stabbed to death in recent times (Cox and Ammess if memory serves) and others have come under other attack. We can't have parliament being controlled by the thug with the biggest stick. Mick It is still no reason to enact laws which restrict the freedom to march, demonstrate, remonstrate or generally harass if needs be by the ones who elected them to represent their views. I think a lot of us now see our democracy as an autocracy and self-preservation society for Parliament. Firemen get burned and die, policemen get injured and killed. Early democracies show that those ruling are not immune to the displeasure of the electorate. I agree with you but I wasn't aware that this issue was linked with the laws you mention. I would have thought that we have enough laws that are supposed to prevent violent behaviour or threats.
Mick
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Post by zou on Feb 24, 2024 8:35:17 GMT
I'm kicking myself having been reminded today that the speaker has visited Israel during the current conflict and is proud that his father helped set up Labour friends of Israel. So whilst I thought he was just a weasel who'd rather look racist than weak under pressure, turns out that the truth is much more damning.
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