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Post by willien on Feb 29, 2024 15:04:08 GMT
When both the sales and marketing bods and the legal bods agree that a warning be issued (or agree on anything else for that matter) get cynical, fast1
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Post by peterob on Feb 29, 2024 16:09:36 GMT
Had to change a headlight bulb on SWMBO's Shhkoda at the weekend there...take off part of the wheel arch liner and get to it through a tiny hole with sharp edges from underneath. It's not like they don't know how to do things well...they just chose not to. Not that it is terribly relevant to me, I have LED headlights, but the owners manual I have for the Audi cautions against changing HID headlight bulbs because "the can explode and injure you" and "there are sharp edges that might cause injury". There is also som waffle about only an approved dealer having the correct equipment. I have changed HIDs on two different Saabs without injury from the light units or the bulbs, other parts of the car that hinder access are a different matter.
I remain convinced that such notices are there to discourage DIY tinkering and bring in profits for the "authorised" workshops.The real annoyance however is the need for a specialist computer system to diagnose faults and reset various functions. Contrary to the beliefs expressed earlier diagnosis of faults can be performed without the computer but, having replaced a part clearing the fault codes does require it. It is my considered opinion that modern cars arre unnecessarily complex and technology dependent.
My "new" car costs twice as much to service as my "old" car. I'm sure the difference is the licensing price the garage has to pay in order to use the diagnostic/reset software for the car. |
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Post by zou on Feb 29, 2024 16:17:39 GMT
I remain convinced that such notices are there to discourage DIY tinkering and bring in profits for the "authorised" workshops.
There's another, slightly less cynical, explanation. In these litigious times (remember the coffee too hot case against McDonalds?) all and sundry want to protect themselves and telling someone not to do something (and leave it to the experts) is one way of doing that.
Look at the number of "beware wet floor" signs you see on perfectly dry floors. Look at the number of "beware very hot water" signs there are, especially where the water is luke warm. It's all CYA!!!
In my early 20's I thought nothing of replacing brake shoes for friends and a few paying customers. I wouldn't dream of it these days.
Mick
The hot coffee case was a fantastic example of someone receiving life-changing injuries due to the product being served dangerously hot (and significantly hotter than it should have been) and then the liable party's lawyers doing their best to belittle the issue. |
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Post by peterob on Feb 29, 2024 16:30:06 GMT
Look at the number of "beware wet floor" signs you see on perfectly dry floors. Look at the number of "beware very hot water" signs there are, especially where the water is luke warm. It's all CYA!!! The best "hot water" danger sign I saw was over the cold tap in a hotel room in Karratha. It said something like "warning, in summer the cold water temperature can be 46 C". It didn't bother saying anything about the hot water, maybe they don't bother. |
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Post by andy on Feb 29, 2024 17:07:25 GMT
Not that it is terribly relevant to me, I have LED headlights, but the owners manual I have for the Audi cautions against changing HID headlight bulbs because "the can explode and injure you" and "there are sharp edges that might cause injury". There is also som waffle about only an approved dealer having the correct equipment. I have changed HIDs on two different Saabs without injury from the light units or the bulbs, other parts of the car that hinder access are a different matter.
I remain convinced that such notices are there to discourage DIY tinkering and bring in profits for the "authorised" workshops.The real annoyance however is the need for a specialist computer system to diagnose faults and reset various functions. Contrary to the beliefs expressed earlier diagnosis of faults can be performed without the computer but, having replaced a part clearing the fault codes does require it. It is my considered opinion that modern cars arre unnecessarily complex and technology dependent.
My "new" car costs twice as much to service as my "old" car. I'm sure the difference is the licensing price the garage has to pay in order to use the diagnostic/reset software for the car. Be thankful they don't need a special tool to get the wheels off too? www.lasertools.co.uk/Product/6247/Wheel-Nut-Socket-17mm-for-Mercedes-Benz-WAFNot that it's that expensive but it all adds up. |
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Post by geoffr on Feb 29, 2024 21:26:51 GMT
Not that I would buy a Mercedes but, my temptation would be to locate conventional hex head bolts and have done with the WAF bolts. |
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Post by andy on Feb 29, 2024 22:12:22 GMT
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Post by MJB on Feb 29, 2024 22:26:40 GMT
Not that I would buy a Mercedes but, my temptation would be to locate conventional hex head bolts and have done with the WAF bolts. How are you removing the WAF bolts to replace them and how much would 20 hex bolts of a suitable standard to hold something important like wheels on a car cost? |
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Post by willien on Feb 29, 2024 23:00:59 GMT
Not that I would buy a Mercedes but, my temptation would be to locate conventional hex head bolts and have done with the WAF bolts. How are you removing the WAF bolts to replace them and how much would 20 hex bolts of a suitable standard to hold something important like wheels on a car cost? When I bought my Yeti part of the deal was an MOT and 4 new tyres. When I bought winter tyres on steel wheels and went to swap them over low and behold no security nut adapter. Car bought from sales facility so obvi. the garage they used for MOTs and work had nicked the adapter. Phoned Skoda - high whinny voice - "Well its best if you bring it in and we'll..." Got an adapter off ebay for about £7.
I really cannot see £X (£14 was it) to keep a merc. running as being worthy of... anything really. Even if it was a really, really old merc.
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Post by geoffr on Mar 1, 2024 7:19:52 GMT
Not that I would buy a Mercedes but, my temptation would be to locate conventional hex head bolts and have done with the WAF bolts. How are you removing the WAF bolts to replace them and how much would 20 hex bolts of a suitable standard to hold something important like wheels on a car cost? I have never yet bought a car that didn’t have a wheel brace to allow for a wheel change by the owner. Cost of 20 wheel bolts, no idea but experience tells me that those “special” bolts are going to get damaged sooner or later an I’d be surprised if they didn’t come at a “special” price. |
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Post by peterob on Mar 1, 2024 7:38:54 GMT
How are you removing the WAF bolts to replace them and how much would 20 hex bolts of a suitable standard to hold something important like wheels on a car cost? I have never yet bought a car that didn’t have a wheel brace to allow for a wheel change by the owner. Cost of 20 wheel bolts, no idea but experience tells me that those “special” bolts are going to get damaged sooner or later an I’d be surprised if they didn’t come at a “special” price. I never managed to get a wheel nut off using a conventional brace. I carried a telescopic socket wrench handle for years. I think garages, on the whole, are more inclined these days to torque wheel nuts correctly (probably the high replacement cost of aluminium wheels) rather than use the air wrench to its utmost. |
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Post by mick on Mar 1, 2024 8:33:57 GMT
There's another, slightly less cynical, explanation. In these litigious times (remember the coffee too hot case against McDonalds?) all and sundry want to protect themselves and telling someone not to do something (and leave it to the experts) is one way of doing that.
Look at the number of "beware wet floor" signs you see on perfectly dry floors. Look at the number of "beware very hot water" signs there are, especially where the water is luke warm. It's all CYA!!!
In my early 20's I thought nothing of replacing brake shoes for friends and a few paying customers. I wouldn't dream of it these days.
Mick
The hot coffee case was a fantastic example of someone receiving life-changing injuries due to the product being served dangerously hot (and significantly hotter than it should have been) and then the liable party's lawyers doing their best to belittle the issue. You are right. I had forgotten the details. Sorry.
Mick
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Post by Chester PB on Mar 1, 2024 18:44:27 GMT
Should we now expect insurance premiums to fall to reflect the reduced risk?  I will not be keeping fingers and toes crossed in anticipation. Me either. Average price spent on new cars in the UK must be well north of £40,000 now. Garage labour rates over £100 per hour are not uncommon and many of them won't fit anything other than new oem parts, which with increasingly modular designs and electronics are getting harder to repair and more expensive to replace. Ding the corner of a car and a new light cluster alone might be £3500....that's not lower risk. About 25 years ago I spent a few months on a contract as a programmer in the IT department of one of the UK's largest vehicle leasing companies, and soon learned that many private customers' interest in the cost of the car only extended as far as the size of the monthly payments (much like when I was selling TVs and washing machines on credit 20 years earlier). This perhaps explains the rise in car prices since many private buyers do not pay this directly.
For private customers the monthly figure was calculated from the undiscounted price, the manufacturer's franchised dealers standard hourly labour rates for servicing, and the high interest rate applied on the 'loan' that financed the vehicle purchase. The leasing company purchased the cars at greatly discounted prices, and paid a greatly reduced hourly rate for servicing because of the volume of business they sent to the franchised dealers. The obsession with having a new cars every 3 or 4 years made all this possible, and the leasing company did not 'pass on' to customers the volume discounts negotiated with manufacturers.
I notice that recently there have been revelations about other finance arrangements that allow private buyers to have new cars, and the way in which only looking at the monthly figure allowed some of these to make a lot of money for everybody involved in the transaction. I have never understood borrowing money, and paying interest, on an asset that depreciates so much in the first 2 or 3 years of its life, but to many people the ownership of a new car is the only consideration.
All the above relates to private buyers. Fleet contracts for commercial customers running a number of high mileage vehicles have different considerations because of tax and cashflow. |
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Post by willien on Mar 1, 2024 19:33:19 GMT
Me either. Average price spent on new cars in the UK must be well north of £40,000 now. Garage labour rates over £100 per hour are not uncommon and many of them won't fit anything other than new oem parts, which with increasingly modular designs and electronics are getting harder to repair and more expensive to replace. Ding the corner of a car and a new light cluster alone might be £3500....that's not lower risk. About 25 years ago I spent a few months on a contract as a programmer in the IT department of one of the UK's largest vehicle leasing companies, and soon learned that many private customers' interest in the cost of the car only extended as far as the size of the monthly payments (much like when I was selling TVs and washing machines on credit 20 years earlier). This perhaps explains the rise in car prices since many private buyers do not pay this directly.
For private customers the monthly figure was calculated from the undiscounted price, the manufacturer's franchised dealers standard hourly labour rates for servicing, and the high interest rate applied on the 'loan' that financed the vehicle purchase. The leasing company purchased the cars at greatly discounted prices, and paid a greatly reduced hourly rate for servicing because of the volume of business they sent to the franchised dealers. The obsession with having a new cars every 3 or 4 years made all this possible, and the leasing company did not 'pass on' to customers the volume discounts negotiated with manufacturers.
I notice that recently there have been revelations about other finance arrangements that allow private buyers to have new cars, and the way in which only looking at the monthly figure allowed some of these to make a lot of money for everybody involved in the transaction. I have never understood borrowing money, and paying interest, on an asset that depreciates so much in the first 2 or 3 years of its life, but to many people the ownership of a new car is the only consideration.
All the above relates to private buyers. Fleet contracts for commercial customers running a number of high mileage vehicles have different considerations because of tax and cashflow. Only time I had a new car was when I first became eligble for a company car and my the employer had not yet bought into the concept of cash equivalent. I have never ever taken up a kind offer of "finance" and always enjoy the look of torment on the salesman's face when I say "cash". |
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Post by John Farrell on Mar 1, 2024 20:21:44 GMT
The last car I bought, we were a few thousand short of the cash price, but had investments maturing within a month. The salesman suggested I just write a promissory note, and pay the balance when money was available.
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