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Post by andy on Feb 27, 2024 15:43:43 GMT
Me either. Average price spent on new cars in the UK must be well north of £40,000 now. Garage labour rates over £100 per hour are not uncommon and many of them won't fit anything other than new oem parts, which with increasingly modular designs and electronics are getting harder to repair and more expensive to replace. Ding the corner of a car and a new light cluster alone might be £3500....that's not lower risk. Don't know about "well" but a quick Google suggests average new car price of £39,308 in January 2023. NB - there is "Road Tax" supplement of £390 per year for the first 6 years for cars with a list price of over £40K. As there cannot be many new cars sold without a discount that suggests a substantial number of cars attract the road tax surcharge. Re the cost of repairs, I agree that is frustrating but without these manufacturing methods new car prices would no doubt be substantially higher.
There are cheaper (and better) ways to make heating controls than a touchscreen, for example, but if folk buying new cars want touchscreens then that's what they'll get. Think it's something like 90% of new cars sold are on finance so it's easier to make a few extra quid a month affordable. They are good at upselling. |
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Post by willien on Feb 27, 2024 16:17:13 GMT
Don't know about "well" but a quick Google suggests average new car price of £39,308 in January 2023. NB - there is "Road Tax" supplement of £390 per year for the first 6 years for cars with a list price of over £40K. As there cannot be many new cars sold without a discount that suggests a substantial number of cars attract the road tax surcharge. Re the cost of repairs, I agree that is frustrating but without these manufacturing methods new car prices would no doubt be substantially higher.
There are cheaper (and better) ways to make heating controls than a touchscreen, for example, but if folk buying new cars want touchscreens then that's what they'll get. Think it's something like 90% of new cars sold are on finance so it's easier to make a few extra quid a month affordable. They are good at upselling. Was not aware of either heating controls or touch screens being mentioned. I dislike touch screen controls whether in cars or on cameras. |
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Post by El Sid on Feb 28, 2024 12:22:55 GMT
There are cheaper (and better) ways to make heating controls than a touchscreen, for example, but if folk buying new cars want touchscreens then that's what they'll get. I fear it's more they're convinced that's what they want by the marketing and advertising departments...  |
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Post by willien on Feb 28, 2024 12:54:00 GMT
I am not convinced manufacturers make enough money to survive off selling cars. I think they are dependant upon price selling inflated spares to a captive audience and the increasing complexity of modern cars helps keep the audience captive.
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Post by spinno on Feb 28, 2024 13:31:24 GMT
my first car back in the 90's was a Ford Fiesta. My brother in law and I could just about do everything to keep the thing moving (apart from any welding) I did 70000 miles in just about 3 years ferrying to Uni, job interviews, holidays and cricket, eventually I needed a bigger car (Hello Spike!) but the car moved on and lasted a couple more years (without the hammering)
Nowadays I only just about have the confidence to fill the washer bottle up...
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Post by petrochemist on Feb 28, 2024 13:56:26 GMT
my first car back in the 90's was a Ford Fiesta. My brother in law and I could just about do everything to keep the thing moving (apart from any welding) I did 70000 miles in just about 3 years ferrying to Uni, job interviews, holidays and cricket, eventually I needed a bigger car (Hello Spike!) but the car moved on and lasted a couple more years (without the hammering) Nowadays I only just about have the confidence to fill the washer bottle up... My first cars were too cheap to bother doing much on. One of my first more decent cars, was a Toyota Celica 2000GT, that was 10 years old when I brought it. I did over 100,000 miles in it over the following 10 years along with the odd maintenance task - Changing the engine when the timing chain got noisy (cheaper & quicker than getting replacement parts), welding jobs proved easy (nothing right underneath). The rear axle replacement was farmed out to pros (away from home) but that then had to be re-done as they'd messed it up. I decided it was time for a full restoration about 6 months before I met my wife, over 2 years later no further progress had been made  These days topping the fluids is about as far as I go, often just changing a headlight bulb is now a major task, needing the whole light unit taken out! |
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Post by mick on Feb 29, 2024 8:58:32 GMT
Like others, I used to do quite major repairs at the roadside (we didn't have a garage or off-road parking). Also, like others, topping up the fluids is about as far as I can go these days. As is said above, even changing the headlamp bulb was a major task on my old car.
Mick
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Post by andy on Feb 29, 2024 9:38:09 GMT
Like others, I used to do quite major repairs at the roadside (we didn't have a garage or off-road parking). Also, like others, topping up the fluids is about as far as I can go these days. As is said above, even changing the headlamp bulb was a major task on my old car. Mick Had to change a headlight bulb on SWMBO's Shhkoda at the weekend there...take off part of the wheel arch liner and get to it through a tiny hole with sharp edges from underneath. It's not like they don't know how to do things well...they just chose not to. |
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Post by geoffr on Feb 29, 2024 10:32:38 GMT
Like others, I used to do quite major repairs at the roadside (we didn't have a garage or off-road parking). Also, like others, topping up the fluids is about as far as I can go these days. As is said above, even changing the headlamp bulb was a major task on my old car. Mick Had to change a headlight bulb on SWMBO's Shhkoda at the weekend there...take off part of the wheel arch liner and get to it through a tiny hole with sharp edges from underneath. It's not like they don't know how to do things well...they just chose not to. Not that it is terribly relevant to me, I have LED headlights, but the owners manual I have for the Audi cautions against changing HID headlight bulbs because "the can explode and injure you" and "there are sharp edges that might cause injury". There is also som waffle about only an approved dealer having the correct equipment. I have changed HIDs on two different Saabs without injury from the light units or the bulbs, other parts of the car that hinder access are a different matter.
I remain convinced that such notices are there to discourage DIY tinkering and bring in profits for the "authorised" workshops.The real annoyance however is the need for a specialist computer system to diagnose faults and reset various functions. Contrary to the beliefs expressed earlier diagnosis of faults can be performed without the computer but, having replaced a part clearing the fault codes does require it. It is my considered opinion that modern cars arre unnecessarily complex and technology dependent.
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Post by spinno on Feb 29, 2024 10:41:38 GMT
^WHS^
Just as complex as modern cameras...
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Post by MJB on Feb 29, 2024 12:11:22 GMT
I have LED headlights, but the owners manual I have for the Audi cautions against changing HID headlight bulbs because "the can explode and injure you" and "there are sharp edges that might cause injury". There is also som waffle about only an approved dealer having the correct equipment. I have changed HIDs on two different Saabs without injury from the light units or the bulbs, other parts of the car that hinder access are a different matter. More likely the lawyers insisted on it after someone tried sueing them. |
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Post by geoffr on Feb 29, 2024 12:36:21 GMT
I have LED headlights, but the owners manual I have for the Audi cautions against changing HID headlight bulbs because "the can explode and injure you" and "there are sharp edges that might cause injury". There is also some waffle about only an approved dealer having the correct equipment. I have changed HIDs on two different Saabs without injury from the light units or the bulbs, other parts of the car that hinder access are a different matter. More likely the lawyers insisted on it after someone tried suing them. Good point, the only manual I could find was the USA version |
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Post by andy on Feb 29, 2024 12:58:38 GMT
^WHS^ Just as complex as modern cameras... So complex they don't work properly and need frequent updates like the last phone I bought (well probably not the last but the old one will need to be really broken before I'll risk another). |
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Post by geoffr on Feb 29, 2024 13:40:55 GMT
^WHS^ Just as complex as modern cameras... So complex they don't work properly and need frequent updates like the last phone I bought (well probably not the last but the old one will need to be really broken before I'll risk another). It would be foolish to consider that previous generations of equipment, bet that cars, cameras or phones, were less complex in their time than current models. Unfortunately, software control of almost everything, almost, inevitably results in more opportunities for errors. Hence the need for regular updates to fix the errors and then to fix the fix ad infinitum. The more complex the system the more opportunities for mistakes. Simplicity, although it reduces the chances of something being wrong, also brings a reduction in precision (using the engineering definition of the word) and greater variability in the output.
Imagine controlling the DRLs of a modern car where they switch colour to become direction indicators without electronics or mechanically controlling the tracking of the laser in a CD player. Simplicity of operation generally requires complex software. It appears that the majority of the current "younger" generation prefer simplicity of operation to simplicity of construction. The result is that those of us who value simplicity are left perplexed by the, supposedly, user friendly software interface of our electronic devices. One day I will master the Audi's navigation system! Until then, I'll rely on good, old fashioned, maps.
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Post by mick on Feb 29, 2024 14:59:41 GMT
I remain convinced that such notices are there to discourage DIY tinkering and bring in profits for the "authorised" workshops.
There's another, slightly less cynical, explanation. In these litigious times (remember the coffee too hot case against McDonalds?) all and sundry want to protect themselves and telling someone not to do something (and leave it to the experts) is one way of doing that.
Look at the number of "beware wet floor" signs you see on perfectly dry floors. Look at the number of "beware very hot water" signs there are, especially where the water is luke warm. It's all CYA!!!
In my early 20's I thought nothing of replacing brake shoes for friends and a few paying customers. I wouldn't dream of it these days.
Mick
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