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Post by mick on Feb 21, 2024 11:00:02 GMT
It's claimed that average speeds have reduced by 4mph since the Welsh introduced their 'blanket' 20 mph.
But look where the measurements were done, "Monitoring was carried out on open roads which were not affected by traffic calming or where drivers were slowed down by parked cars."
Assuming that the measure was to reduce accidents, does it matter that speed in places described above reduce? Aren't they the roads where accidents were least likely anyway? What's happened in the other areas where, one assumes, accidents are more likely?
Above all, of course, what has actually happened to accident rates and severity?
Isn't this 'bad science?'.
MIck
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Post by peterob on Feb 21, 2024 11:17:50 GMT
It's claimed that average speeds have reduced by 4mph since the Welsh introduced their 'blanket' 20 mph.
But look where the measurements were done, "Monitoring was carried out on open roads which were not affected by traffic calming or where drivers were slowed down by parked cars."
Assuming that the measure was to reduce accidents, does it matter that speed in places described above reduce? Aren't they the roads where accidents were least likely anyway? What's happened in the other areas where, one assumes, accidents are more likely?
Above all, of course, what has actually happened to accident rates and severity?
Isn't this 'bad science?'.
MIck
There are lots of long stretches of 20 mph limit road free of parked cars and traffic calming. It requires a fair bit of attention when close to the border. Usually it is presence of street lights that is the only warning. |
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Post by don on Feb 26, 2024 20:49:42 GMT
When I first saw it I thought it was a joke but evidently it has reduced accidents
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Post by willien on Feb 26, 2024 21:04:31 GMT
When I first saw it I thought it was a joke but evidently it has reduced accidents Edinburgh has many 20MPH streets and the Police say it has reduced deaths and serious accidents. When the Scottish Borders rolled out widespread 20MPH limits the police pre-emptively said they would not be enforcing them as 30MPH limis were not where death and serious injuries occurred and they had better things to do with their limited time. There are quite a number of speed cameras now installed in borders towns and villages in case anyone is thinking of visiting. |
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Post by JohnY on Feb 26, 2024 21:19:09 GMT
I don't care whether the speed limit in built up areas is 20 or 30mph. Just be consistent. If 20 reduces accidents and their severity that's fine.
Structure main routes to be reasonably safe at 50 and motorways at 80. Use anyone doing a ton or more on any road as a dummy on one of those test sleds. A real living person properly instrumented would be a much better experimental body than a dummy.
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Post by zou on Feb 26, 2024 21:28:55 GMT
I don't care whether the speed limit in built up areas is 20 or 30mph. Just be consistent. If 20 reduces accidents and their severity that's fine. Structure main routes to be reasonably safe at 50 and motorways at 80. Use anyone doing a ton or more on any road as a dummy on one of those test sleds. A real living person properly instrumented would be a much better experimental body than a dummy. Is that you volunteering? |
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Post by spinno on Feb 26, 2024 22:16:22 GMT
I don't care whether the speed limit in built up areas is 20 or 30mph. Just be consistent. If 20 reduces accidents and their severity that's fine. Structure main routes to be reasonably safe at 50 and motorways at 80. Use anyone doing a ton or more on any road as a dummy on one of those test sleds. A real living person properly instrumented would be a much better experimental body than a dummy. Is that you volunteering? Wine talking? |
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Post by JohnY on Feb 26, 2024 23:36:57 GMT
I don't care whether the speed limit in built up areas is 20 or 30mph. Just be consistent. If 20 reduces accidents and their severity that's fine. Structure main routes to be reasonably safe at 50 and motorways at 80. Use anyone doing a ton or more on any road as a dummy on one of those test sleds. A real living person properly instrumented would be a much better experimental body than a dummy. Is that you volunteering? I don't do a ton down the motorway, so no. |
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Post by geoffr on Feb 27, 2024 7:24:17 GMT
Is that you volunteering? I don't do a ton down the motorway, so no. I was on the M40 yesterday at a junction where the road goes from 3 lanes to 2 then after the junction back to 3 lanes. Where it reverted to 3 lanes I watched a small white car come off the slip road, which becomes lane 1, and immediately switch to lane 2. Lane 1 was empty, for the obvious reason that nobody had yet moved into it. There’s no danger of anyone doing a”ton” when drivers won’t keep left, even less when they won’t even drive at 70 in lane in an otherwise vacant lane 4. |
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Post by Kath on Feb 27, 2024 9:14:09 GMT
I'm not sure it's bad science. It's just reporting a side effect of introducing 20mph speed limits in places where accidents are likely to happen...speeds have lowered elsewhere too. I'm not entirely surprised. When I drove back from Somerset a while back, the first part of my journey was a load of farm tracks and back roads. It took me a while to get my head around being on the motorway afterwards - didn't feel comfortable for a good ten minutes or so. It might be a reflection of that kind of adjustment period, but en masse.
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Post by davem399 on Feb 27, 2024 9:50:34 GMT
I'm not sure it's bad science. It's just reporting a side effect of introducing 20mph speed limits in places where accidents are likely to happen...speeds have lowered elsewhere too. I'm not entirely surprised. When I drove back from Somerset a while back, the first part of my journey was a load of farm tracks and back roads. It took me a while to get my head around being on the motorway afterwards - didn't feel comfortable for a good ten minutes or so. It might be a reflection of that kind of adjustment period, but en masse. This reminds me of our first canal boat holiday over 20 years ago. We had spent a week plodding along at around 3mph, and when I got back in the car to drive home, 20mph felt very fast. It took quite a few miles to get used to regular driving speeds again. |
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Post by Kath on Feb 27, 2024 10:21:10 GMT
I'm not sure it's bad science. It's just reporting a side effect of introducing 20mph speed limits in places where accidents are likely to happen...speeds have lowered elsewhere too. I'm not entirely surprised. When I drove back from Somerset a while back, the first part of my journey was a load of farm tracks and back roads. It took me a while to get my head around being on the motorway afterwards - didn't feel comfortable for a good ten minutes or so. It might be a reflection of that kind of adjustment period, but en masse. This reminds me of our first canal boat holiday over 20 years ago. We had spent a week plodding along at around 3mph, and when I got back in the car to drive home, 20mph felt very fast. It took quite a few miles to get used to regular driving speeds again. Exactly. (We did a canal boat holiday once. Took us a week to get nowhere - very relaxing!) |
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Post by zx9 on Feb 27, 2024 11:38:11 GMT
Should we now expect insurance premiums to fall to reflect the reduced risk?  I will not be keeping fingers and toes crossed in anticipation. |
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Post by andy on Feb 27, 2024 12:40:51 GMT
Should we now expect insurance premiums to fall to reflect the reduced risk? I will not be keeping fingers and toes crossed in anticipation. Me either. Average price spent on new cars in the UK must be well north of £40,000 now. Garage labour rates over £100 per hour are not uncommon and many of them won't fit anything other than new oem parts, which with increasingly modular designs and electronics are getting harder to repair and more expensive to replace. Ding the corner of a car and a new light cluster alone might be £3500....that's not lower risk. |
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Post by willien on Feb 27, 2024 14:27:56 GMT
Should we now expect insurance premiums to fall to reflect the reduced risk? I will not be keeping fingers and toes crossed in anticipation. Me either. Average price spent on new cars in the UK must be well north of £40,000 now. Garage labour rates over £100 per hour are not uncommon and many of them won't fit anything other than new oem parts, which with increasingly modular designs and electronics are getting harder to repair and more expensive to replace. Ding the corner of a car and a new light cluster alone might be £3500....that's not lower risk. Don't know about "well" but a quick Google suggests average new car price of £39,308 in January 2023. NB - there is "Road Tax" supplement of £390 per year for the first 6 years for cars with a list price of over £40K. As there cannot be many new cars sold without a discount that suggests a substantial number of cars attract the road tax surcharge. Re the cost of repairs, I agree that is frustrating but without these manufacturing methods new car prices would no doubt be substantially higher.
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