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Post by JohnY on Jan 18, 2024 0:14:51 GMT
Another consideration: how would the grid cope now if most houses or flats were also using electricity to charge batteries in electric cars? And run heat pumps.
The grid would crash.
Sorry for resuscitating this old thread but I was struck by noticing how close we were to load shedding. I like the presentation of data given by the quaint meters shown on that website because they indicate very roughly what maximum power is available for each source as well as the power being delivered. Presently we are safe and exporting power. Unusually today we seem to have some nuclear off line. Also we were exporting a smidgen to Norway where we often import over 1GW of hydro. Presently we are importing a small amount on that inter-connector.
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Post by geoffr on Jan 18, 2024 8:03:50 GMT
Another consideration: how would the grid cope now if most houses or flats were also using electricity to charge batteries in electric cars? Apparently one suggestion is that the batteries would support the grid by discharging into it at times of peak load. Quite how anyone would ever manage to fully charge an electric car isn’t explained. |
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Post by zou on Jan 18, 2024 8:23:47 GMT
Another consideration: how would the grid cope now if most houses or flats were also using electricity to charge batteries in electric cars? Apparently one suggestion is that the batteries would support the grid by discharging into it at times of peak load. Quite how anyone would ever manage to fully charge an electric car isn’t explained. It's obvious - Bob's car is charged by Dave's car, which is then charged by Amanda's car, which is charged by Claire's car, which Bob borrows because his didn't fully charge overnight for some reason. |
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Post by peterba on Jan 18, 2024 9:15:19 GMT
It's obvious - Bob's car is charged by Dave's car, which is then charged by Amanda's car, which is charged by Claire's car, which Bob borrows because his didn't fully charge overnight for some reason.
You seem to know a lot of people with EVs.  |
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Post by spinno on Jan 18, 2024 9:45:15 GMT
Another consideration: how would the grid cope now if most houses or flats were also using electricity to charge batteries in electric cars? Or using electricity to operate ground/air source heat pumps or heaven forfend to power their evenings entertainment |
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Post by davem399 on Jan 18, 2024 9:55:33 GMT
Another consideration: how would the grid cope now if most houses or flats were also using electricity to charge batteries in electric cars? And run heat pumps.
The grid would crash.
Sorry for resuscitating this old thread but I was struck by noticing how close we were to load shedding. I like the presentation of data given by the quaint meters shown on that website because they indicate very roughly what maximum power is available for each source as well as the power being delivered. Presently we are safe and exporting power. Unusually today we seem to have some nuclear off line. Also we were exporting a smidgen to Norway where we often import over 1GW of hydro. Presently we are importing a small amount on that inter-connector.
This is the site I’ve been looking at recently. A bit easier to read than the one that John linked to. Will we be more reliant on the various interconnectors in the future, or will those countries be needing everything that they can generate? grid.iamkate.com/ |
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Post by peterob on Jan 18, 2024 10:19:21 GMT
Another consideration: how would the grid cope now if most houses or flats were also using electricity to charge batteries in electric cars? "Now" the answer is probably that it would cope OK because unless a household has a dedicated charger installed the most that can be drawn is 3 kW - same as a 3-bar electric fire - and locally the grid is designed to deal with this. The most power a household can theoretically draw from the grid is 24 kW (unless they have 3-phase) although in practical terms this is 12 kW as we found out this year. Our neighbour wanted an electric car charge point installed but "our" electricity supply was daisy-chained on their grid connection. We had to have a direct connection to the grid-line in the road installed. The single phase domestic car charge point, we learned, is 8kW. Doubtless grid connections are designed with some utilisation assumption. If I were to guess I'd say peak loadings would be expected to be around 6-9 kW per house. This would be a kettle/oven, electric fire, immersion heater all on at once which would be typical in the 1960's, although not for long. Add significant numbers of 8 kW car charges to this mix then probably additional substations would have to be installed to reduce the number of properties served per substation so "in the future" the grid as it is "now" will need upgrading. Whether there is enough generation capacity to meet the demand is another matter. |
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Post by JohnY on Jan 18, 2024 11:11:24 GMT
In the streets surrounding our local substation additional cables have been installed. The new cables extend approximately half way along the original cables and the original cable cut and joined to the new cable. The properties all use their original cabling and 100A fuses. The original cables could not support all properties drawing their maximum power at the same time.
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Post by peterob on Jan 18, 2024 16:44:25 GMT
In the streets surrounding our local substation additional cables have been installed. The new cables extend approximately half way along the original cables and the original cable cut and joined to the new cable. The properties all use their original cabling and 100A fuses. The original cables could not support all properties drawing their maximum power at the same time. Must be the same sort of thing. Properties around here were built to share a 100A supply, we didn't have one. We do now. The workmen said that in some areas they are doing almost every house. I don't know if they did anything at the substation. I guess it depends on how many houses are served but it gets heavy if the big cables can't take it. The (yet another) planning application for new estate going up on what was the back field mentions provision for electric vehicles but isn't explicit what that provision is. Assuming a two car household is needed for two people to go separately to work in order to pay the mortgage then for EV's and a commute to Manchester, say, they'll need an 8 kW charger and someone will have to get up in the middle of the night to swap the plug. Interestingly their "worse case" traffic assumption is that, of 150 households ( they aim to build for 1400) there will be 15 commutes by car. I think 300 would be a better worse case for a satellite commuter estate just off the A55 ring road connecting the M53 and M56. |
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Post by JohnY on Jan 18, 2024 22:44:31 GMT
It won't take long for dual chargers to be sold. They will have a combined demand of 8 kW. They will distribute power evenly during the chosen charging time. The problem in our area was not that two properties shared one 100 amp spur but there were too many 100 amp spurs on one cable from the substation.
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Post by spinno on Jan 19, 2024 8:15:44 GMT
It won't matter anyway, sea level rising, temperature driven hurricanes and over-population will mean GB will be no place to live. It will be used as a missile practice range.
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Post by JohnY on Jan 20, 2024 10:32:43 GMT
The UK forked out £3.5bn on electricity from France, Norway, Belgium and the Netherlands last year, accounting for 12pc of net supply, according to research from London Stock Exchange (LSEG) Power Research.
According to official data, France accounted for around £1.5bn of power sold to the UK in the year to November 2023 while Norway earned around £500m.
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Post by spinno on Jan 20, 2024 12:09:14 GMT
The UK forked out £3.5bn on electricity from France, Norway, Belgium and the Netherlands last year, accounting for 12pc of net supply, according to research from London Stock Exchange (LSEG) Power Research. According to official data, France accounted for around £1.5bn of power sold to the UK in the year to November 2023 while Norway earned around £500m. Does that include EDF? |
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Post by gray1720 on Jan 20, 2024 12:28:02 GMT
The UK forked out £3.5bn on electricity from France, Norway, Belgium and the Netherlands last year, accounting for 12pc of net supply, according to research from London Stock Exchange (LSEG) Power Research. According to official data, France accounted for around £1.5bn of power sold to the UK in the year to November 2023 while Norway earned around £500m. "Taking back control" looks to be working well, then. Wonder how you tell when it's filthy foreign electricity keeping your lights on? |
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Post by zou on Jan 20, 2024 12:31:48 GMT
The UK forked out £3.5bn on electricity from France, Norway, Belgium and the Netherlands last year, accounting for 12pc of net supply, according to research from London Stock Exchange (LSEG) Power Research. According to official data, France accounted for around £1.5bn of power sold to the UK in the year to November 2023 while Norway earned around £500m. "Taking back control" looks to be working well, then. Wonder how you tell when it's filthy foreign electricity keeping your lights on? When there's an 'r' in the month. |
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