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Post by mick on Aug 23, 2023 8:05:07 GMT
There was a TV News report that a traffic enforcement camera in Brighton had generated fines of £1.2 million in a year. It's 'policing' the entry to a so called bus gate. The £1.2m represents about 40% of the fines levied for bus lane infringements in the whole of the UK.
Below is an example of the signage 'protecting; the bus gate entrance.
Do you think that's adequate warning for a car driver? Nowhere does it indicate that cars are banned.
Before you ask - no I have not been fined!
Mick |
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Post by spinno on Aug 23, 2023 8:19:20 GMT
There was a similar zone (not necessarily a bus gate) in Nottingham city centre near Trent University. Eventually they decided to put better signage up. Bus lanes have their uses but even bus drivers get into trouble fogged up on the Tyne |
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Bus Gate
Aug 23, 2023 9:15:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by andy on Aug 23, 2023 9:15:35 GMT
Got the opposite problem here on a bit of dual carriageway with a bus lane that is only active at peak times on weekdays. When it isn't active most folk still drive in lane 2 and many well under the speed limit so doing the speed limit in lane 1 results in undertaking.
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Post by nickr on Aug 23, 2023 10:33:06 GMT
There was a TV News report that a traffic enforcement camera in Brighton had generated fines of £1.2 million in a year. It's 'policing' the entry to a so called bus gate. The £1.2m represents about 40% of the fines levied for bus lane infringements in the whole of the UK.
Below is an example of the signage 'protecting; the bus gate entrance.
Do you think that's adequate warning for a car driver? Nowhere does it indicate that cars are banned.
Before you ask - no I have not been fined!
Mick It might not say cars are banned, but then strictly speaking, they're not, according to the sign - they can go down there for access, even during operational hours. The sign looks pretty clear to me about what IS allowed, and I would hope drivers would be aware enough to understand such a sign. Is it prominent enough, and does it give enough warning? Can't tell from that pic. It looks big and obvious enough, but it might not be, depending on what the approach is, and depending on other signage and road layouts. If the figures you're quoting are correct, it suggests that either the drivers of Brighton are particularly ignorant and woeful, or more likely that it's harder to read and understand the sign in context than it appears in that pic. |
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Post by mick on Aug 24, 2023 6:52:51 GMT
Just two comments.
First this signage has confused motorists all over the country where it's been introduced. It's a bit unfair to single out the drivers of Brighton for 'woefulness'.
Second, if I enter 'for access' how does the camera that's policing the road know that? If it doesn't know that I want legally allowed access, isn't it going to automatically issue a fine?
Mick
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Post by davem399 on Aug 24, 2023 7:40:01 GMT
Parts of Canterbury have buses only areas which have rising bollards which fall and rise once the bus has passed through. There has been a number of photos on local news sites of cars perched on top of the bollards after trying to sneak through after a bus.
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Post by nickr on Aug 24, 2023 8:22:47 GMT
Just two comments. First this signage has confused motorists all over the country where it's been introduced. It's a bit unfair to single out the drivers of Brighton for 'woefulness'. Second, if I enter 'for access' how does the camera that's policing the road know that? If it doesn't know that I want legally allowed access, isn't it going to automatically issue a fine? Mick Wasn't me singling out the drivers of Brighton, Mick - you said this camera was responsible for 40% of the fines for bus lane infringement in the whole of the UK, whilst you also say this type of signage is confusing motorists across the country - but from the figures you've quoted, clearly not to the same extent. They're literally singling themselves out. As to the second point, no idea. But clearly there's a defence there. Assuming there's actually something to access... |
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Post by mick on Aug 24, 2023 10:28:34 GMT
I think that the Brighton issue is quite simple. Brighton was one of the first, if not the first, to introduce such signage. It's been running for a little over a year, and so Brighton was the first to publish the 'fine revenue' numbers for the camera. That got reported in national news. It's also a hot topic locally because there are many who think that the whole scheme is to raise revenue and has nothing to do with road safety etc.
According to reports local to me our own cameras are well on track to equal the Brighton 'take'.
"It suggests that either the drivers of Brighton are particularly ignorant and woeful" is a quote from your post.
Finally, in relation to the 'except for access' issue, I drove past my local sign this morning and noticed that the except for access words have been removed. I'm guessing that the difficulty of proving or denying access will have had something to do with that.
Mick
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Post by nickr on Aug 24, 2023 11:36:01 GMT
I think that the Brighton issue is quite simple. Brighton was one of the first, if not the first, to introduce such signage. It's been running for a little over a year, and so Brighton was the first to publish the 'fine revenue' numbers for the camera. That got reported in national news. It's also a hot topic locally because there are many who think that the whole scheme is to raise revenue and has nothing to do with road safety etc. According to reports local to me our own cameras are well on track to equal the Brighton 'take'. "It suggests that either the drivers of Brighton are particularly ignorant and woeful" is a quote from your post. Finally, in relation to the 'except for access' issue, I drove past my local sign this morning and noticed that the except for access words have been removed. I'm guessing that the difficulty of proving or denying access will have had something to do with that. Mick Ah that makes sense, on all counts. But honestly, any driver who can't understand that sign shouldn't be on the road. |
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Post by andy on Aug 24, 2023 12:39:36 GMT
Looks like they have put the sign just after a corner, which could make it difficult to see as drivers are likely looking at the road when cornering and then it could be outside their field of vision (much like many 20mph sign round here which are placed just after turning into a junction and well outside where I'm looking).
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Post by nickr on Aug 24, 2023 13:05:51 GMT
Looks like they have put the sign just after a corner, which could make it difficult to see as drivers are likely looking at the road when cornering and then it could be outside their field of vision (much like many 20mph sign round here which are placed just after turning into a junction and well outside where I'm looking). Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I was suggesting was most likely. I would be very surprised if it could take that much money purely on people who don't understand road signs. |
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Post by andy on Aug 24, 2023 13:33:22 GMT
Looks like they have put the sign just after a corner, which could make it difficult to see as drivers are likely looking at the road when cornering and then it could be outside their field of vision (much like many 20mph sign round here which are placed just after turning into a junction and well outside where I'm looking). Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I was suggesting was most likely. I would be very surprised if it could take that much money purely on people who don't understand road signs. FWIW I know these signs are there but I find they are difficult to see when driving, particularly when turning left into that road. There are worse ones around too.  |
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Post by willien on Aug 24, 2023 13:35:51 GMT
Looks like they have put the sign just after a corner, which could make it difficult to see as drivers are likely looking at the road when cornering and then it could be outside their field of vision (much like many 20mph sign round here which are placed just after turning into a junction and well outside where I'm looking). Return to 30mph signs have the same problem in Edinburgh. Can think of one which I never noticed because I was turning right at lights and had more to worry about. Another was placed behind a damn great cherry tree so you only have a chance of seeing it for 1/2 the year - for years I thought it was 20mph from the Blackford crossroads to the Morningside clock. |
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Bus Gate
Aug 24, 2023 14:46:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by andy on Aug 24, 2023 14:46:25 GMT
Looks like they have put the sign just after a corner, which could make it difficult to see as drivers are likely looking at the road when cornering and then it could be outside their field of vision (much like many 20mph sign round here which are placed just after turning into a junction and well outside where I'm looking). Return to 30mph signs have the same problem in Edinburgh. Can think of one which I never noticed because I was turning right at lights and had more to worry about. Another was placed behind a damn great cherry tree so you only have a chance of seeing it for 1/2 the year - for years I thought it was 20mph from the Blackford crossroads to the Morningside clock. The worse ones I was thinking of are in Edinburgh. Near wherever the driving test place is on the west side of town. Would be nice if they painted the change of speed limits on the road too. Just behind my house we have a road that hasn't had speed limit signs for years. I think the unlit rural single carriageway bit used to have national speed restriction signs but now depending on which direction you are driving it the last speed limit sign you'll see is either 30 or 40. |
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Post by peterba on Aug 24, 2023 17:35:14 GMT
Just behind my house we have a road that hasn't had speed limit signs for years. I think the unlit rural single carriageway bit used to have national speed restriction signs but now depending on which direction you are driving it the last speed limit sign you'll see is either 30 or 40.
If it has street lights, it doesn't need signs - except to advise of a higher speed limit.
In the absence of signs stating otherwise, a single-carriageway or dual-carriageway road with street lights has a default speed limit of 30mph.
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